Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/11/29

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Subject: [Leica] Cameras Real Pros Use D3
From: mak at teleport.com (Mark Kronquist)
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 23:27:12 -0800
References: <20121130063041.QTAG26743.eastrmfepo102.cox.net@eastrmimpo110> <20121130014919.0a7ef3d5@linux-mh41.site>

D3 never looked back. Finally a DSLR that works...(and I do not shoot Canon 
so maybe there is a Canon as well)...D4 a bit of a disappointment as an 
upgrade path (WHY?) but the D800...wow...

As much as I love me Leicas...why bother to buy one? If I want a compact kit 
to deliver superb images..the Fuji KIT  KIT  KIT with EVERY LENS costs less 
than an M9  BODY...


On Nov 29, 2012, at 10:49 PM, Phil Forrest wrote:

> If they had wanted to capture a new market segment, they would have
> updated the R mount with a dedicated full frame body compatible with R
> lenses. They could have "sold out" just a bit and had a company such as
> Sony produce autofocus lenses to Leica spec and with this capability,
> they could have built the digital version of the Nikon F4. Backward
> compatible but forward thinking. If someone stuck the guts of the D3
> into an R9 or even just adapted the linkage from the R series to use
> the R lenses with full function (no stop down metering) on a Nikon or
> Canon full frame DSLR, there would be a decent sized line of people
> waiting to get theirs. 
> 
> But Leica wants to stick to their current user constituency, with their
> same form UI factor, hoping that it's sustainable. 
> 
> I love Leica's old mechanical cameras and I'll never get rid of my M4
> but Leica will have to work very hard to make me come back and even
> harder to seduce people my age to invest in their products.
> 
> Phil Forrest
> 
> 
> 
> On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 22:30:42 -0800
> "jon.streeter" <jon.streeter at cox.net> wrote:
> 
>> This is the state of my understanding at the moment.  Leica needs to
>> build a better mousetrap.
>> 
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
>> 
>> ----- Reply message -----
>> From: "Phil Forrest" <photo.forrest at earthlink.net>
>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
>> Subject: [Leica] Cameras Real Pros Use
>> Date: Thu, Nov 29, 2012 9:48 pm
>> 
>> 
>> Nope, won't happen.
>> The Leica M9 failure rate was far too high for news professionals to
>> consider using them for work. It's a fun hobby camera but for the hard
>> working journalist, the Leica doesn't cut it. Both my M8 and M9 spent
>> about 40% of the time I owned them out at Leica for repairs. I
>> personally know owners of a total of nine other M9s in the
>> Philadelphia area and every single one of them had to go back to
>> Leica a few times. One of my friends went through three shutters in
>> his M8 then two shutters and a sensor in his M9. And he's a working
>> pro in Philly who luckily has Canon gear for backup but while his
>> Leica was out at the factory, the backup became the regular camera.
>> 
>> All of the digital Leicas I have seen have had to have sensors
>> remapped or replaced due to the hot pixel / vertical line issues. So,
>> about 20 digital Leica M bodies in the Philly area that are owned by
>> acquaintances of mine and 100% of them had to be repaired. Not
>> reliable enough for a premium product. For a camera that costs that
>> much, it should not only be reliable, it should be PERFECT.
>> 
>> You said the M9 was going to be the game changer a few years ago,
>> Mark. It didn't happen. It drove myself and two of my friends AWAY
>> from Leica as a matter of fact due to their incredible expense, slow
>> service, and then their declining support for the still excellent M8. 
>> 
>> So again, we won't see Leicas taking their place in the journalism
>> world. Everyone knew the rangefinder was on its way out by 1960, so
>> why would that change today? 
>> 
>> Phil Forrest
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, 29 Nov 2012 20:58:56 -0500
>> Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I do think though the M9 worked and the M is going to work a whole
>>> lot better and there are a huge amount of used Leica glass out
>>> there in a gamut of price points. Pros are familiar with what Leica
>>> rangefinders have done in the not too distant past and will be
>>> interested like they always have in what that might add to their
>>> work. I think the M is going to be a huge success for Leica and
>>> we'll be seeing articles about pros using them for jobs. We didn't
>>> wee that with the M9. We will see it with the M. Imagine shooting
>>> an f1 lens @ iso 6400! And video clips. I think the new M will get
>>> Pro support in the market; and Leica will be back in the hot spot
>>> at least where they were in the 90's. When sure a small amount of
>>> shooter used Leica but in each group there usually was at least one.
>>> 
>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>> Photography
>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> From: Chris Crawford <chris at chriscrawfordphoto.com>
>>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2012 20:52:31 -0500
>>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Cameras Real Pros Use
>>>> 
>>>> Nikon and Canon digital SLRs are used by 99% of the world's
>>>> professionals. Why? Because they're extremely reliable, have
>>>> extensive lens and accessory systems, and those companies are the
>>>> cutting edge technological leaders....and despite all that, they
>>>> cost less than Leicas.
>>>> 
>>>> Professional photographers of all types are hurting economically
>>>> today, and that is especially true of journalists. They're poorly
>>>> paid, and newspapers have been shedding staff photographers to
>>>> save money. Leica has simply priced itself out of the professional
>>>> market. It really is that simple. On top of that, Leica's digital
>>>> cameras have had a lot of well-publicised technical and
>>>> reliability problems. Pros need cameras that "Just Work", every
>>>> time. Canon and Nikon cameras "Just Work". The lenses are
>>>> affordable. The image quality is magnificent. Using Nikon or
>>>> Canon is a no-brainer.
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Chris Crawford
>>>> Fine Art Photography
>>>> Fort Wayne, Indiana
>>>> 260-437-8990
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com  My portfolio
>>>> 
>>>> http://blog.chriscrawfordphoto.com  My latest work!
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Christopher-Crawford/48229272798
>>>> Become a fan on Facebook
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 11/29/12 8:41 PM, "David Ching" <davidhhching1 at yahoo.com.sg>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Come on, don't tease, tell us all. Which one/s? Why, if you know
>>>>> the reasons.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And why not Leicas?
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> David Ching
>>>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://philipforrestphoto.wordpress.com/
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/philforrest
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information



In reply to: Message from jon.streeter at cox.net (jon.streeter) ([Leica] Cameras Real Pros Use)
Message from photo.forrest at earthlink.net (Phil Forrest) ([Leica] Cameras Real Pros Use)