Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/12/09
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]I really should have said not solely about slavery. Phil Forrest On Sun, 9 Dec 2012 23:56:04 -0500 Ric Carter <ricc at embarqmail.com> wrote: > While it may not have been simple, the idea that it was NOT about > slavery is farfetched. > > The states who seceeded said so distinctly. > > Read their resolutions of of secession. > > ric > > > On Dec 9, 2012, at 11:48 PM, Phil Forrest > <photo.forrest at earthlink.net> wrote: > > > It was never that simple and as others have said, the war was not > > about slavery. This was never a clear cut war over a single issue > > but modern history would have you think it was. > > > > Phil Forrest > > > > > > > > On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 23:08:45 -0500 > > Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote: > > > >> You'd want to call it from the southern standpoint the "war of > >> northern aggression" rather than the war of "we were being total > >> A-holes and the north had to put an end to it" aggression. > >> > >> Mark William Rabiner > >> Photography > >> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ > >> > >> > >>> From: Bill Larsen <von-ohlen at sbcglobal.net> > >>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > >>> Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2012 16:59:55 -0800 > >>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org> > >>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Desensitization > >>> > >>> Douglas Barry the answers you are getting here are somewhat > >>> simplistic. And I am not quite knowledgeable enough to really > >>> furnish any light. The term is "war of northern aggression" as > >>> other have wrote is much more complex. It really wasn't about > >>> slavery other than in a tangential manner. It was a civil war. > >>> And like all civil war very nasty. I might point out that there > >>> was not a totally uniform opinion about it in any state. > >>> Brothers were pitted against brothers (and I mean in the family > >>> rather than the society). States like North Carolina and Virginia > >>> had people fighting in both armies. And apparently it is not a > >>> conflict that has healed yet. On 12/9/2012 4:15 PM, Don Dory > >>> wrote: > >>>> Ric, while slavery was the proximate cause of the war, most of > >>>> the response was the truly great debate about the nature of the > >>>> union. Many in the Southern States truly believed in the State > >>>> first and the union second. Lee is the perfect example of one who > >>>> abhorred slavery but so loved his Virginia that he declined the > >>>> honor of leading the Union Armies in the invasion of Virginia. > >>>> > >>>> Of course political power and the wealth that flowed from that > >>>> had a lot to do with the ultimate war. With Lincoln as president > >>>> there was no doubt that the new states joining the union would be > >>>> free states that would ultimately change the balance of power in > >>>> the Senate and the House. If you were wealthy in the South, in > >>>> no small part due to slavery, then the idea that the industrial > >>>> northern states combined with the new states in the west could > >>>> take your wealth away was worth the expenditure of thousands of > >>>> lives. Of course not their own. I say that, but if you visit > >>>> the University of Virginia you will see that most of the classes > >>>> near the Civil War died in the war: if you could go to the > >>>> University you were part of the ruling class. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 7:05 PM, Don Dory <don.dory at gmail.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Ken, I just had a good friend tour the Blues sites in > >>>>> Mississippi near Greenwood. Most are still there in all their > >>>>> grubby glory. The Delta is a place of great poverty with > >>>>> pockets of vast wealth. Good ingredients for the Blues. Most > >>>>> of the worst poverty is invisible now. It doesn't mean that it > >>>>> isn't there but it is poor politics to have rows of shotgun > >>>>> shacks with no running water and no interior toilet facilities > >>>>> visible from the road. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 7:00 PM, Don Dory <don.dory at gmail.com> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> I knew that term would draw fire. Many residents of the > >>>>>> Southeastern U.S. use that term as from their perspective the > >>>>>> Northern States violated the long term agreement about slavery. > >>>>>> It is important when moving between cultures to understand > >>>>>> their perspective on how things happened and more important > >>>>>> the why. Whether it fits the facts on the ground the personal > >>>>>> reality is the sum of the society, it's myths, dreams, and the > >>>>>> origination stories that culture tells itself. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> As to the American Civil War as most know the conflict of the > >>>>>> early to mid 1860's it was eighty years in the making more or > >>>>>> less and proof that even know horrendous human undertakings > >>>>>> require just as horrendous a response to change. My opinion is > >>>>>> that is why change is so hard, the price of change is often as > >>>>>> horrendous as the objected to activity. Consider the Second > >>>>>> World War, we remember the Holocaust as 6 million Jews, > >>>>>> Gypsies, and mental defectives being slaughtered but it took > >>>>>> the lives of some 20 million Russians, 12 million Germans, > >>>>>> half a million French citizens, half a million Americans, > >>>>>> almost 600,000 Poles. I could go on but certainly a very high > >>>>>> price to resolve European issues starting in 1914. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> As to the question of the pictures, if you browse the images of > >>>>>> the Civil War there are a few still available of the > >>>>>> "hospitals" where the only known treatment for 58 caliber > >>>>>> bullets smashing bone and flesh was amputation; hence the > >>>>>> piles of arms and legs. The United States suffered more > >>>>>> deaths and injuries during the Civil War than it did in any > >>>>>> other conflict: new estimates are at 750,000 casualties. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Sun, Dec 9, 2012 at 6:24 PM, Tina Manley > >>>>>> <images at comporium.net> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> I love the South and would miss it terribly. There are plenty > >>>>>>> of us who don't fly Confederate flags, support Obama, vote > >>>>>>> Democratic, and don't stereotype others. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Tina > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Sunday, December 9, 2012, Bill Pearce <billcpearce at cox.net> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>> Usually pronounced Wah uv Nawthen Agression, this is the term > >>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>> residents of the US South (Sore Loosers) use to describe the > >>>>>>> American Civil > >>>>>>> War. These can be, but not always are the same people that > >>>>>>> have large Confederate flag decals on their pickup trucks. It > >>>>>>> is an inaccurate description. President Lincoln was brilliant > >>>>>>> and far seeing, and realized that if this succession was to > >>>>>>> become fact, there would be no end, and what > >>>>>>> is the USA would become a hodgepodge of tiny nations led by > >>>>>>> who knows what. > >>>>>>> There are many of us, however, who wouldn't miss the south a > >>>>>>> bit. > >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: philippe.amard > >>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, December 09, 2012 5:10 PM > >>>>>>>> To: Leica Users Group > >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Desensitization > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> could it be Vietnam? > >>>>>>>> ph > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Le 9 d?c. 12 ? 23:39, Douglas Barry a ?crit : > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> "Don Dory" <don.dory at gmail.com> wrote > >>>>>>>>>> nasty deaths from smallpox and ebola. Or consider the > >>>>>>>>>> images from > >>>>>>> the > >>>>>>> War > >>>>>>>>>> of Northern Aggression where there were stacks of limbs > >>>>>>>>>> outside the > >>>>>>> medical > >>>>>>>>>> tents. > >>>>>>>>> Don, as an Irishman living in Ireland and unfamiliar with > >>>>>>>>> many terms > >>>>>>> used in the States, what was the War of Northern Aggression? > >>>>>>> Do you mean > >>>>>>> the Korean War? I never saw those images. > >>>>>>>>> I presume you don't mean the American Civil War as I thought > >>>>>>>>> that > >>>>>>> started with the Confederacy attacking Fort Sumter? Well it > >>>>>>> did according > >>>>>>> to all those school history books (European) I read 50 years > >>>>>>> ago. > >>>>>>>>> Maybe school books are different in the USA.... > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Douglas > >>>>>>>>> _________ > >>>>>>>>> Douglas Barry > >>>>>>>>> Bray, Co. Wicklow > >>>>>>>>> Republic of Ireland > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group. > >>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more > >>>>>>>>> information > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> Leica Users Group. > >>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more > >>>>>>>> information > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> Leica Users Group. > >>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more > >>>>>>>> information > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> Tina Manley, ASMP > >>>>>>> www.tinamanley.com > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> Leica Users Group. > >>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more > >>>>>>> information > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Don > >>>>>> don.dory at gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Don > >>>>> don.dory at gmail.com > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Leica Users Group. > >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more > >>> information > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Leica Users Group. > >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more > >> information > > > > > > > > -- > > http://philipforrestphoto.wordpress.com/ > > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/philforrest > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Leica Users Group. > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information -- http://philipforrestphoto.wordpress.com/ http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/philforrest