Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/12/16

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Subject: [Leica] Gun control
From: ricc at embarqmail.com (Ric Carter)
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2012 08:53:15 -0500
References: <20121215192954.IOIH17456.eastrmfepo201.cox.net@eastrmimpo210> <CCF23F5D.22A85%chris@chriscrawfordphoto.com> <CAH1UNJ3VDpYKKgNmq=fR=G_j+D1jMq_aPd2SzpArYK_v6=Y3Lw@mail.gmail.com> <964FD270-DA8E-457B-BE4E-D5D19FA16A7C@embarqmail.com>

sorry--i meant that to be off list as i disengaged from this discussion 
yesterday

ric


On Dec 16, 2012, at 8:41 AM, Ric Carter <ricc at embarqmail.com> wrote:

> so true
> 
> we're not ALL nutcases here, but there is a huge amount of delusion about 
> the real world
> 
> ric
> 
> On Dec 16, 2012, at 12:09 AM, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> 
> wrote:
> 
>> Of course, you have no aberrations in the USA. No desolate and bombed
>> out cities to photograph. No right wing loonie policemen
>> misinterpreting legal statutes. The government does not open posts,
>> eavesdrop on telephone conversations, monitor internet chat rooms,
>> rummage through locked luggage, etc. All because of one terrorist
>> incident, which the rest of the world faces more regularly, and
>> largely created by the USA's own astonishingly short sighted foreign
>> policy. Only the third world has all these problems. How stupid of me,
>> I should have known all these things. (-:
>> 
>> By the way, the girls were released in a few hours, and the cases
>> withdrawn because of the public anger stoked by the media.
>> 
>> On the other hand, all Asian cities I have been to are very safe by
>> any standard. You can walk around without worry at 2 am, even in
>> cities with abysmal poverty levels like Mumbai, Bangkok or Kuala
>> Lumpur. Toddlers do not get randomly massacred by gun toting loonies.
>> I have never heard a gun fired in the cities in my life of 60 years. I
>> have held a gun in my hand just once in my life. Manliness and self
>> respect is not equated to bearing arms and killing all living things.
>> You takes your pick....
>> 
>> The most fallacious argument is this rise/fall in acts of crime. In
>> percentage terms this might look massive, but in absolute terms the
>> data speaks differently. Marginal changes on a low base leads to high
>> percentage swings, but very low absolute differences.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> Jayanand
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On 16-Dec-2012, at 1:24 AM, Chris Crawford <chris at 
>> chriscrawfordphoto.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Jayandand's country, India, threw two teenage girls in jail a couple 
>>> weeks
>>> ago because one of them posted a comment on Facebook about a dead
>>> politician that angered his followers, and the other girl  merely "liked"
>>> the first girl's post. Both were arrested.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Chris Crawford
>>> Fine Art Photography
>>> Fort Wayne, Indiana
>>> 260-437-8990
>>> 
>>> http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com  My portfolio
>>> 
>>> http://blog.chriscrawfordphoto.com  My latest work!
>>> 
>>> http://www.facebook.com/pages/Christopher-Crawford/48229272798
>>> Become a fan on Facebook
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 12/15/12 2:29 PM, "jon.streeter" <jon.streeter at cox.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Do "most Asian countries" have a constitution with the guarantees of
>>>> freedom of the press and the right of the people to keep and bear arms,
>>>> in writing with a history of high-court decisions affirming those 
>>>> rights?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Reply message -----
>>>> From: "Jayanand Govindaraj" <jayanand at gmail.com>
>>>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
>>>> Subject: [Leica] Gun control
>>>> Date: Sat, Dec 15, 2012 10:03 am
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Most Asian countries have all these things. It is by no means restricted
>>>> only to the USA.
>>>> Cheers
>>>> Jayanand
>>>> 
>>>> On Sat, Dec 15, 2012 at 11:59 AM, Phil Forrest
>>>> <photo.forrest at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Most countries in the East also don't have the freedoms of speech,
>>>>> religion, press like we do here. Right to due process of law. Innocence
>>>>> until proven guilty by a jury of one's peers. Right to a speedy trial.
>>>>> Right to be secure in one's effects. Equal protection under the law for
>>>>> all citizens. Right to vote. The list goes down the Bill of Rights and
>>>>> through the rest of the US Constitution. No matter what nation says
>>>>> they have it right, they are wrong. Nobody is perfect, including the
>>>>> USA but here in the USA we have these rights and many are willing to
>>>>> give their lives to protect them.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Phil Forrest
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 14:11:42 +0800
>>>>> David Ching <davidhhching1 at yahoo.com.sg> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Most countries in the East ban possession of fire-arms by individuals
>>>>>> and unlicensed bodies. Schools here do not have metal detectors.
>>>>>> The students in general study in safe environments little affected by
>>>>>> violence, drugs or extortion. Only bullying by peers rears its ugly
>>>>>> head in certain schools. We watch the same violent movies. Have the
>>>>>> same concerns about safety. This is the 21st century. Why does
>>>>>> Americans need to have guns for self-protection? Stop shooting games
>>>>>> & hunting with bullets. 'Shoot' with glass! Capture not kill not
>>>>>> maim. It's time to act when little innocent kids get killed and
>>>>>> scarred for life.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It's indeed a very sad day in the history of the USA. And I am
>>>>>> certain some other shooter will try to outdo this latest insane act.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mark, the firearms industry and gun toting lovers will always defend
>>>>>> the right to arms. Until one of their kind is personally affected, I
>>>>>> suppose. Sorry but I don't see the logic. Perhaps our differences in
>>>>>> lifestyles account for this madness. It's not matter of the East
>>>>>> versus the West. The Europeans do not bear arms.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As I see it, the only way out is a total ban on guns for the civilian
>>>>>> population. Of course with the usual exceptions..
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> David Ching
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> http://philipforrestphoto.wordpress.com/
>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/philforrest
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
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>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
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>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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In reply to: Message from jon.streeter at cox.net (jon.streeter) ([Leica] Gun control)
Message from chris at chriscrawfordphoto.com (Chris Crawford) ([Leica] Gun control)
Message from jayanand at gmail.com (Jayanand Govindaraj) ([Leica] Gun control)
Message from ricc at embarqmail.com (Ric Carter) ([Leica] Gun control)