Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/05/25
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Unfortunately true, I find myself using my Nikon D4 more, and the R8DMR less. Still using the M8 though. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Barbour" <steve.barbour at gmail.com> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org> Sent: Saturday, May 25, 2013 1:35:26 PM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: [Leica] PESO: RG Lewis and Leica M frustrations On May 25, 2013, at 9:00 AM, Richard Taylor <r.s.taylor at comcast.net> wrote: > I think Steve has it right. Unless the Mini proves to be a useable camera > at an acceptable price, Leica will have truly and finally abandoned those > of us looking for a practical tool in favor of the gifters and collectors. Leica has abandoned the R users, now they sell the M to collectors at a premium, leaving the M users with promises, panting at the door.... In reality, many are in the process of moving on, to fine alternatives, available, and at a fair price. s > Useable to my mind means that the camera has at least an APS-C sensor, a > built-in EVF of a quality like that in the XE-1, and microlenses on the > sensor to let us use M lenses with excellent image quality with or without > an adapter. The anticipated price of about $3.5K would be in the > acceptable range for me if the camera met the other criteria. > > Dick > > > > On May 25, 2013, at 11:05 AM, Steve Barbour wrote: > >> >> On May 25, 2013, at 7:21 AM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> I don't know if this translates well. In Australia we call this the " >>> tall >>> poppy syndrome". Some people enjoy taking swipes at anyone successful. >>> Good >>> on them. Of course it is in our interest too that Leica Camera does well. >>> They make products that some of us value a lot for the photographs that >>> we >>> can make with them and for the experience of using those products to >>> achieve that, They can sell as much as they want to anyone that may value >>> their products for whatever reason they wish. Why would you care if you >>> value Leica for the photographs you can make? >> >> If at this time virtually all of the product is going to people who don't >> make photographs, you can bet that I/we should care about it. Of course >> it is impacting our ability to make photos right now. But I don't think >> that you have answered my question. The short run is already surely >> impacted as I have just noted. I was asking about the longer run. What >> does this model predict in terms of future optical quality? >> >> I am now using a wonderful 1950's Leica Summicron 50/2 on a Fujifilm XE-1 >> body, with a better experience and with better results than with the >> latest Leica glass on my M9. Leica quality clearly is already >> compromised, and their plan to sell expensive gear to non users means >> that they are not currently giving priority to the practical needs of >> professionals and discriminating users. >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> *Breathe in, breathe out, move on* -- Jimmy Buffett >>> >>> Cheers >>> Geoff >>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman >>> >>> >>> On 26 May 2013 00:04, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On May 25, 2013, at 6:55 AM, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Nathan, >>>>> It has taken you a very long time to realize and accept this. I was >>>>> sure >>>> of >>>>> the strategic shift in marketing with the M8 itself - it was so >>>>> obvious - >>>>> the marketing, the choice of magazines for advertisements, the >>>> positioning, >>>>> the advertorials, etc. With Blackstone's entrance, it was doubly >>>>> obvious, >>>>> especially when the ostensible reason for the investment was to spread >>>> the >>>>> Leica Boutiques, not develop new products. IMHO, it is great for them, >>>>> because as in all MOJO businesses, the margins are obscene, and as >>>>> Joseph >>>>> points out, there are enough people in the emerging world to pay for >>>>> the >>>>> bulk of the production (not only the M series but the S series as >>>>> well). >>>> It >>>>> is not dissimilar to what the Bordeaux market has gone through in the >>>> last >>>>> few years, and what the Burgundy market is going through now - though I >>>>> believe that over 50% of the bottles sold in China are fakes, because >>>>> as >>>> in >>>>> all such markets, the labels matter (Mojo), not the intrinsic quality. >>>>> It >>>>> will be interesting to see what will happen to Leica as growth in China >>>>> keeps slowing down, as is bound to happen. Remember, this will shaft >>>>> the >>>>> Russian market as well, because energy prices would nosedive. As far >>>>> as >>>> I >>>>> can see, they have alienated most of their traditional clientele, bar a >>>>> few, and I wonder where they would go to make up the volumes. They just >>>> do >>>>> not have a diversified enough customer base to withstand a big topline >>>> hit. >>>>> It is going to be interesting. The best thing for all of us would be if >>>> all >>>>> those unused Leicas in China come on the used market at the same time, >>>>> as >>>>> herd behaviour takes hold, and cause a glut there. >>>>> >>>>> I would look to a Leica IPO for Blackstone and Kaufmann to cash out >>>> sooner >>>>> rather than later, if growth in China keeps drifting down. >>>> >>>> >>>> Jayanand, >>>> >>>> jewelry for rich clients who don't use it, or who use it with minimal >>>> knowledge of its qualities and capabilities, makes the future sound >>>> rather >>>> ominous. >>>> >>>> What does this model predict in terms of future optical quality? >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Jayanand >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Nathan Wajsman <photo at >>>>> frozenlight.eu >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Right. So Leica has made a strategic shift from the photography >>>>>> business >>>>>> to the jewelry business. Fair enough, the Blackstone people obviously >>>> know >>>>>> where the money is. But then they should be up front about it so that >>>> the >>>>>> photography dealers can switch their focus to companies that actually >>>> are >>>>>> interested in supplying photographers. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Nathan >>>>>> >>>>>> Nathan Wajsman >>>>>> Alicante, Spain >>>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu >>>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu >>>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws >>>>>> Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>> YNWA >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 25, 2013, at 2:28 PM, Joseph Yao wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Leica have been shipping sufficient quantities of the new M240. They >>>> may >>>>>>> not have been sending them to their 'traditional' markets where their >>>>>> profit >>>>>>> margins are lower. You will see plenty of M240 in, for example, >>>> Beijing >>>>>> and >>>>>>> Shanghai, where the going rate for one is US$12,000 to US$13,000. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A handful of limited production silver chrome MM have been made for >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> Chinese market, and available at RMB 1,581,000 each, approx. >>>> US$258,280. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Joseph >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. 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