Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2014/05/04

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Subject: [Leica] FF will require at least 350 Mpx for full resolution
From: richard at richardmanphoto.com (Richard Man)
Date: Sun, 4 May 2014 23:21:36 -0700
References: <31161EAB-87C4-44B3-B872-4478A1E40DC9@bex.net> <80F9701439F20347874CE5E4E03C22E9E6B5A91E@WhizzMAIL01.whizz.org>

CIA? :-)


On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 9:37 PM, John McMaster <john at mcmaster.co.nz> wrote:

> The other thing, other than how an end image looks, is that as pixel count
> increases the camera has to be held steadier. At ~36-40MP and you are
> looking at faster than 1/3xFL as minimum to hand hold IMO, higher MB backs
> are usually used on tripods.
>
> What size output are you envisioning that will need this resolution?
>
> john
> ________________________________________
>
>
> OK, too much time now that I'm fully retired as of 10 days ago. As I
> previously posted here and in the Gallery, I was impressed by the
> improvement in resolution with the NEX7's 24 Mpx APS-C sensor over the
> D800's 36MPx FF sensor (and much moreso the M typ 240's FF sensor) when all
> were used with 35mm lenses (actual zoom FL, not "35mm equivalent", in the
> case of the NEX7). The use of a true 35mm FL with the NEX7 was the
> equivalent, in image scale on the sensor, of testing a FF sensor of 54 Mpx.
> Clearly the limits of the inherent resolution of camera lenses are far
> beyond the resolving power of sensors up to 36 Mpx. How far, I wondered.
>
> So I shot the same scene with a Sony RX100 (20 MPx in a sensor that would
> be about 1/8th the surface area of FF if it were cut down from 4:3 to 3:2
> and from 20 to 18 Mpx) and a Panasonic TS3 (12 Mpx, and about 1/32nd of FF
> if cut down to 3:2 and 10.7 Mpx). These are therefore like small sections
> of FF sensors of roughly 144 Mpx and 350Mpx, respectively. I shot
> comparison images as well as with a D800. I made images with the RX100 with
> the zoom set to actual FLs of 24mm and 35mm, and with the TS3 set to 23mm
> (its maximum actual FL), as confirmed in the EXIF. The D800 was used with
> 24 and 35mm primes. The results are posted at:
>
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/hlritter/Res+Test+Crops/
>
> I was not surprised by the improvement from the NEX7's 54 Mpx equivalent
> to the RX100's 144 Mpx equivalent, but to see a further increase in detail
> in going to the TS3's ~350 Mpx equivalent was really eye-opening. There's
> not as much more detail in this last step as the one before, but the true
> case is masked by a lot of what looks like heavy JPEG artifact (no raw
> option) in the TS3's image. This is puzzling, as the degree of compression
> here is quite mild (12 Mpx down to 5) and actually less than with the
> RX100. There may be more noise as well, inevitable with smaller pixels.
> There are numerous trade-offs with tiny pixels, but I would expect
> technological improvements to alleviate some of these. When one of the
> advantages of medium and larger formats is higher sensor resolution and
> rendition of detail, it seems to me that when the FF sensor pixel count
> gets into the range above 100 Mpx (assuming that will happen), we'll have
> resolution and detail that surpass MF. Noise and dynamic range will suffer
> as the pixels shrink, but for many users I suspect that stellar resolution
> will trump the disadvantages, at least if technology keeps these to about
> the level they have now.
>
> Regardless, I think this is a revealing demonstration of how the
> resolution of even the highest-Mpx sensor still falls far short of lens
> resolution. What will be done with/about this state of affairs will be
> interesting to see.
>
> --howard
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>



-- 
// richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
// http://facebook.com/richardmanphoto


In reply to: Message from hlritter at bex.net (Howard Ritter) ([Leica] FF will require at least 350 Mpx for full resolution)
Message from john at mcmaster.co.nz (John McMaster) ([Leica] FF will require at least 350 Mpx for full resolution)