Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2015/02/22

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Subject: [Leica] Elder Prostate Wisdom
From: steve.barbour at gmail.com (Steve Barbour)
Date: Sun, 22 Feb 2015 17:39:18 -0800
References: <2041720826.3829398.1424606305420.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> <8E1D41CB-7FE5-4C35-95B8-131E8809E40D@gmail.com> <E4B7529F-314A-4648-AE32-D67DA1AEDE03@gmail.com> <E39DEE92-FDA2-493D-9379-5FC6700F7711@gmail.com> <D9192193-9738-45D0-80B7-3C117B22461D@gmail.com>

> On Feb 22, 2015, at 4:33 PM, Philip Leeson <leesonpj at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I think that if the inventor of the test says it's being misused, it bears 
> some reflection.

I certainly do agree Phil...the following considerations make me suspicious 
of his logic, reasoning, also possible financial interests.

though he (Ablin) discovered PSA, an enzyme/antigen from the prostate, not 
AFAIK PSA,  per se, as a test for cancer.

he feels that the PSA test is not appropriately being used, as a screening 
tool

his father died of aggressive terminal prostatic CA 

he is a PhD, not an MD, ie not a clinician.

he feels that too much money is being spent on this approach

I suspect only !! reading between the lines of his own arguments,  that he 
may have a burr under his saddle that he is not making more money, from the 
use of PSA, which as he points out, is very big business....


Like most things this whole issue is far from simple. I tend to believe PSA 
assays may be more reliable in following the response to therapy when 
diagnosis has been made, and PSA levels are high,  than for screening, where 
there are too many false positives and negatives.

It appears we are trying to simply differentiate between common benign 
prostatic Ca and the  fortunately, much rarer aggressive prostatic CA. Often 
if a question of one versus the other exists, in the absence of symptoms, 
without pain or bone mets, then in fact we already have our answer. This 
should be part of a scientific study and might in fact make the use of PSA 
totally redundant...


Steve

 





> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Feb 22, 2015, at 6:16 PM, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at gmail.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 22, 2015, at 3:46 PM, Philip Leeson <leesonpj at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> True
>>> NY Times opinion piece by Richard Ablin , March 9, 2010
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> this is perhaps true Phil, (I happen to believe so), but there must be 
>> better proof than a NY Times op/ed  piece by someone who runs his own 
>> Foundation.
>> 
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Phil
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 22, 2015, at 4:39 PM, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at gmail.com> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 22, 2015, at 3:58 AM, Douglas Nygren via LUG <lug at 
>>>>> leica-users.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> One of my doctors told me that every man's prostate will eventually 
>>>>> kill him. If we could live forever, our prostates would do us in 
>>>>> nevertheless.
>>>>> That said, I read somewhere, if I am not mistaken, that the doctor who 
>>>>> invented the PSA no longer believes in it.
>>>> 
>>>> who ? why? is this documented?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> s
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> I reported such to my doctor who nevertheless thinks the test is a 
>>>>> good idea. 
>>>>> "In tests we believe," should be printed on the dollar bill. It's like 
>>>>> military weapons in the hands of the police. If you've got them, 
>>>>> you've got to use them.
>>>>> If you don't test and the patient gets prostate cancer, you are 
>>>>> liable, I would guess.
>>>>> If your PSA gives a false alarms, your doctor is not in danger of 
>>>>> being sued.
>>>>> Personally, I abide by what the U.S. Surgeon General may have said, 
>>>>> namely, Science has proven that life is hazardous to your health.
>>>>> BTW, I do get my PSA checked.
>>>>> Cheers?? Doug
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
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>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
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> 
> _______________________________________________
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Replies: Reply from george.imagist at icloud.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] Elder Prostate Wisdom)
In reply to: Message from douglasnygren at yahoo.com (Douglas Nygren) ([Leica] Elder Prostate Wisdom)
Message from steve.barbour at gmail.com (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] Elder Prostate Wisdom)
Message from leesonpj at gmail.com (Philip Leeson) ([Leica] Elder Prostate Wisdom)
Message from steve.barbour at gmail.com (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] Elder Prostate Wisdom)
Message from leesonpj at gmail.com (Philip Leeson) ([Leica] Elder Prostate Wisdom)