Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2015/05/07
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]And thanks too George! On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 7:17 AM, Robert Adler <rgacpa at gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks Jayanand. Sound advice and much appreciated. > > On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 10:10 PM, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at > gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Bob, >> My answer is simple, and my test for buying photography equipment. If it >> will result in your instinctively getting better photographs with it, it >> is >> worth the expense - for example, the placement of controls on an Nikon >> D800/D4 are what I am used to obviating the need to think too much while >> photographing, so I will buy these ahead of an Nikon D750, which, features >> wise, would do very nicely indeed. Cameras are just a tool for getting >> pictures I want, and am happy with. The rest of the >> marketing/technical/subliminal reasons for purchasing, I leave to others >> to >> ponder on. >> >> Occasionally, a system comes up that fits my needs very well, so I am >> willing to put in the effort to train my brain so that my actions become >> instinctive - which is what I did with the Fuji X system. >> >> It is very uncomplicated, in reality, if you think about it. >> >> Cheers >> Jayanand >> >> >> >> On Thu, May 7, 2015 at 1:01 AM, Robert Adler <rgacpa at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> > Agreed. Lots of variables floating around here. The new Mono246 has 50% >> > more pixels than the original Monochrom. Unless Leica's engineers are >> > stupid (which they are definitely not!), your bound to get a better >> image. >> > More information. >> > >> > And I believe they are using a new processor? A "Maestro II" versus the >> > "Maestro I" in the original Monochrom? Another variable we don't know >> much >> > about its impact. >> > >> > As Ted would say, "WHO GIVES A FLYING FART!" KISS!! IF IT GIVES YOU A >> > BETTER IMAGE, ALL THIS KERPHLUFFEL DOESN'T AMOUNT TO A HILL OF BEANS!!!" >> > (or something like that). >> > >> > However the original Monochrom images I've seen are gorgeous. Tina, >> Lluis >> > and Jay (to name just 3) have blown us (me) away time and again on the >> > amazing tonalities and images at high ISO's (10,000 I believe?). >> > >> > After all this the question for me is if the cost of the new 246 is >> worth >> > it over a used Monochrom (~$3K difference) for: >> > 1. The improvement in the rangefinder (IMO), >> > 2. The better shutter mechanism (my M9 always had a kick to it that >> really >> > caused A LOT of lost sharpness), >> > 3. Improved ISO performance above 10,000. >> > 4. The better fit into my hand of the M240 vs the M9 >> > >> > The main worry is what Peter said: We really don't know what the impact >> > will be going from 14bits to 12bits. I think that remains to be seen... >> > >> > So I guess I'll wait and see until some consensus comes out from real >> > world, non-Leica paid, photographers. Whether or not I will be able to >> > afford groceries (and I am truly grateful for your concerns in this >> area, >> > Steve!) remains to be seen. Probably not whether I go with the old or >> new >> > Monochrom :-) >> > Bob >> > >> > P.S., for those interested, Erwin Puts just got his M246. He initially >> > noticed that the uncompressed file size of the new Monochrom is smaller >> > than the M240, though the compressed files are the same. "The reason for >> > this is unknown"... >> > >> > On Wed, May 6, 2015 at 10:55 AM, Frank Filippone <red735i at >> > verizon.net> >> > wrote: >> > >> > > Precisely my point... look at the images..... >> > > >> > > I have an M9. I looked at the images created in the comparison shots. >> > The >> > > M9 images, when converted to B+W were of significantly less quality in >> > > resolution than the M246. >> > > OTOH, we are comparing apples ( 16MP) and oranges (24MP). Pixels, do >> NOT >> > > grow on trees. More pixels does = better fine display quality, all >> other >> > > things being equal... same lens. >> > > >> > > OTOH, if someone wants to sell their MM and go buy a M246, I am a >> willing >> > > buyer......... of the inferior. >> > > >> > > I have no intention of spending $7500 on a camera. >> > > >> > > He says irreverently.. just like he said when he bought his M8, and >> M9 , >> > > and >> > > A7..... >> > > >> > > Frank Filippone >> > > Red735i at verizon.net >> > > >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: LUG [mailto:lug-bounces+red735i=verizon.net at leica-users.org] >> > > On >> > > Behalf >> > > Of Mark Rabiner >> > > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 10:41 AM >> > > To: Leica Users Group >> > > Subject: Re: [Leica] New M(246) Outputs 12 bit Files >> > > >> > > I agree Frank, tahtwhat whatever bits or other specs if the camera is >> > > making >> > > better images than the previous with supposedly better specs then its >> not >> > > the specs (bits) we should be looking at but the images the camera >> makes >> > > and >> > > our own bank accounts to figure out how to get it! >> > > >> > > >> > > On 5/6/15 1:17 PM, "Frank Filippone" <red735i at verizon.net> wrote: >> > > >> > > > Mark and others.... >> > > > >> > > > The issue of 12 vs 14 bits is not straight forward..... Yes, the >> > > > difference in a straight line way is 4 times the data, but really >> that >> > > > means there is 4 times the GRADATION in the data. More gradation = >> > > > more smooth transitions between different tones. >> > > > >> > > > Assuming the saturation point ( top value) and lowest point ( pure >> > > > black, as in more black is just not possible) remain fixed. Then >> there >> > > > could be a bit of non linear-ness to the ADC... There may be more >> > > > values in the bright areas, and less in the dark areas.... still >> > > > achieving the same dynamic range,. But 12 bits and 14 bits could >> have >> > > > different non-linear transfer functions.... Which, in the context >> of >> > > > photography, may not be at all easy to see with the eyes. >> > > > >> > > > Let me stop here... I spent the better part of my working career in >> > > > understanding the intricacies of ADC products. If I go any further >> in >> > > the >> > > > explanation, I will lose almost everyone. Suffice it to say that >> > what >> > > we >> > > > do not know exceeds what we do know. >> > > > >> > > > Yes, there is a story out there... Yes it is important that we know >> > > > what that story is, in theory. In practice, the M246 seems to >> produce >> > > > better images than the MM.... 12 bits 14 bits or some other number >> of >> > > bits. >> > > > >> > > > I agree with Mark.. HDD storage is so cheap that 12 vs 14 bits is a >> > > > ridiculous reason to chintz on the ADC resolution. There is some >> > > > other reason. >> > > > >> > > > Or, someone made a bad assumption in the first place and this whole >> > > > thread is a waste of time. >> > > > >> > > > Frank Filippone >> > > > Red735i at verizon.net >> > > > >> > > > Peter according to some guy on the internet its not a matter of a >> few >> > > > steps up from 12 to 14 bit. Its 4 times as many shades of intensity >> > > > in a given range. >> > > > That sounds like a big deal for me. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ >> > > > Leica Users Group. >> > > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more >> information >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Mark William Rabiner >> > > Photographer >> > > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Leica Users Group. >> > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Leica Users Group. >> > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Bob Adler >> > www.robertadlerphotography.com >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Leica Users Group. >> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > > > -- > Bob Adler > www.robertadlerphotography.com > -- Bob Adler www.robertadlerphotography.com