Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2015/08/09
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Jayanand, If they trebled their current prices, we would be in agreement. They are still nowhere near expensive enough to be profitable if you are right about their business plan (which I would wholeheartedly agree looks likely). Despite years of widespread pessimism about Leica?s future the first time I thought the end was nigh was when I heard about investment by venture capitalists. Rapists. Frank D. > On 9 Aug, 2015, at 04:32, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> > wrote: > > Frank, > Your expertise is engineering, mine is corporations, including the behavior > patterns of those with substantial P/E investments. Lets agree to disagree > on this one. > Cheers > Jayanand > > On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 11:54 PM, FRANK DERNIE <frank.dernie at > btinternet.com> > wrote: > >> Jayanand,I think the only things they sell in the way you believe are the >> special editions at ?20,000+. >> Both Canon and Nikon sell their top models at a loss, since the production >> volume, which is far higher than Leica M, means they can not be sold at a >> price which covers costs, the manufacturing is amortised over too few >> units.They can make their profit by selling vast numbers of less expensive >> cameras. Leica can't. >> Leica bodies are probably subsidised by the lenses. >> I believe that the reason the S system was MF was because the pricing is >> dictated by the volume and they felt, quite rightly I am sure, that an >> autofocus 24x36 sensor Leica would not sell at S prices. The vast bulk of >> the cost of something selling in these tiny numbers is R&D and tooling, >> not >> the parts. >> Comparing them with Rolex is inappropriate IMO too. Rolex make thousands >> of times more watches than Leica make cameras. The movements are mass >> produced in an already-paid-for production line and haven't needed any R&D >> for decades, the profit margins on seen-to-be luxury goods like this are >> vast. >> Marketing strategies are pretty flexible but the basic inflexibility of >> R&D, tooling and manufacturing an engineering product are nothing like >> those of luxury goods. >> Frank D. >> >> >> On Saturday, 8 August 2015, 14:47, Jayanand Govindaraj < >> jayanand at gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> John, >> That they are, and I don't disagree, but your buying the stuff they make >> new is just icing on the cake as far as they are concerned. Their primary >> market and focus lies elsewhere, and, irrespective of what you think, I >> do >> not fault them for that - on the other hand, I admire them as having taken >> a quite brilliant business decision a decade ago. After all, they have to >> survive by selling new equipment, not pandering to the wishes and >> requirements of those fans/users who are unlikely ever to buy Leica stuff >> new. I am sure that over 95% of the Leica using photographers seldom buy >> their Leica stuff new, and the production has to be sold, after all, so >> what choice do they have, but to take advantage of their hard earned >> goodwill built over decades of excellence, and market their products as >> bits of jewelry for whatever price the market will bear? Very sensible >> high >> margin approach, which has worked very well over the last decade, but now >> that the luxury market is flattening to reducing, we have to see what >> future path they take. Let us not forget that they have to run a business, >> and make money on it. No different in approach from what a Rolex, a >> Montblanc or even a Mercedes/BMW would do - all of them have a large >> proportion of their allure tied up in the aspirational desires of humans - >> but that does not mean they turn out anything but the best they can, at >> their price point. If you ask me, Leica's weakness in comparison to all >> their luxury peers is what seems to be relatively weak after sales service >> - they probably get away with it because a large part of their yearly >> production is never used! >> >> I personally would also think very seriously of adding to the icing if >> they >> come up with a full frame, AF system based on the M series, as has been >> rumoured, and they set up their dealership here in India by then, so that >> I >> have a local outfit to handle problems if they occur. >> >> Cheers >> Jayanand >> >> On Sat, Aug 8, 2015 at 1:31 PM, John McMaster <john at mcmaster.fr> wrote: >> >>> For a company that is doing all that, they seem to spend a lot of time >> and >>> money making some of the best lenses available for any system....... >>> >>> john >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>> >>> Adam, >>> It has been blindingly obvious for a long time, to anyone who does not >> have >>> his eyes wide shut, that Leica has morphed into a luxury marketing >> company >>> (have you ever bothered to notice WHERE they advertise nowadays?)! They >> are >>> opening boutiques in India now in partnership with the largest >>> dealers/purveyors of luxury goods here. However, there is hope for them >>> though, to change back into a photographic company, now that luxury goods >>> sales in China have drastically plunged across the board. >>> Cheers >>> Jayanand >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 10:06 PM, Adam Bridge <abridge at mac.com> wrote: >>> >>>> That?s even worse. >>>> >>>> AB >>>> >>>>> On Aug 7, 2015, at 9:12 AM, Douglas Sharp <douglas.sharp at gmx.de> >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> AFAIK Marketing is now the top level and covers customer relations, >>>> repairs, returns, complaints and technical matters. >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Douglas >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information