Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2007/12/13
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Bob, Whatever you call it. By the time of Coltrane's first brilliant Village Vanguard recordings, his solos on "India" or "Impressions" or "Chasing the Trane" from that album would not have been very out of place in a nadaswaram or shehnai (both types of oboe) concert here. The later free music (Coltrane, Ornette, etc) is very easy to listen to not only for me, but for people I have played it for, who have absolutely no exposure to Western music, whether it be classical, jazz or popular. So there must be some link here on the training of the ear to when young, which is what I was referring to. The basic problem is that most people only enjoy music that is familiar - this is as true to listeners here as well - and have little energy in pushing these boundaries. I love improvisation in music, and am a huge fan of Keith Jarrett's fully improvisational solo ramblings as well. The point is not how often he gets boring, or repetitive, but surprisingly how often he is illuminating. One of the best examples of successful collaborators is Ry Cooder - as you are a guitarist, you must listen to his records firstly with Vishwa Mohan Bhatt, who plays a modified slide guitar, and secondly with Ali Farka Toure, a guitarist from Mali. Bhatt once told me that "A Meeting by the River", their Grammy winning album, was cut the first time that the two had ever met, and they just sat down and played. It is an astonishing album for all that, and well worth buying. Cheers Jayanand On Dec 14, 2007 1:59 AM, bob palmieri <rpalmier@depaul.edu> wrote: > Jayanand - > > Very good point in that this kind of listening can help someone get > free from the need for conventional chords to bind the linear parts > together. > > However, I don't think 'Trane (late), Ornette or Ayler would describe > much of their music as "modal" in the sense that the term is used to > describe Indian classical music or 'Trane's (earlier) playing on "So > What," "Impressions" or "My Favorite Things." > > (I promise the rest of you that we'll take this off list if things > get even more specific...) > > Bob Palmieri > > > > > > > > Bob, > > What I mean is that because Indian classical is all modal, and your > > ear is > > attuned to it, later Coltrane, Ornette or even someone like Albert > > Ayler > > become quite enjoyable (and probably vice versa). Carnatic music is > > very, > > very structured and technical in its rules for improvisation, which > > is still > > 95% of most renderings, while Hindustani is freer, and more > > melodic. That > > said, they are siblings, and have the identical theoretical base - > > the way > > they have evolved over the last few centuries is really a cultural > > thing. > > Cheers > > Jayanand > > > > On Dec 13, 2007 8:51 PM, bob palmieri < rpalmier@depaul.edu> wrote: > > > >> > >> On Dec 13, 2007, at 7:13 AM, Jayanand wrote: > >> > >>> An unexpected advantage is that if your ears get used to this > >>> type of music, then John Coltrane or Ornette Coleman and their ilk > >>> will > >>> make perfect sense. > >> > >> I feel that a slight tweak to this statement could be helpful to some > >> folks. In my opinion, despite the fact that there is great rigor > >> underlying some parts of the harmonic, rhythmic, and/or formal > >> structure in some of the late 'Trane or Ornette, it can be good to > >> take the position that this music is more about spirit than "sense." > >> Sometimes I think listeners feel slighted because they can't make > >> "sense" of this kindof thing and get put off of further listening. > >> > >> Bob Palmieri > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >