Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2008/01/13
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]If I'm reading both you and Ted correctly, Tarek, you're arguing about quantum mechanics rather than about photography. I would agree with virtually everything you write here - although I do think there are times when people are truly unaware of a photographer's presence. The real issue, I would suggest, is not whether someone is "aware" of your presence on a metaphysical level, but whether that awareness alters their behavior. And both you and Ted - and I - see to agree that, if one is doing his or her job correctly, it does not. So the awareness is really irrelevant. Best, B. D. On 1/13/08 1:54 PM, "Tarek Charara" <tarek.charara@pix-that-stimulate.com> wrote: > Ted, > > may I humbly suggest that according to my experience (a third of a > century this year), the mere presence of someone, with or without a > camera, active or not, in a particular space just modifies that > space and the behaviour of the other beings in that space, to a > certain degree. (I'm having some difficulties expressing this, but > hope I'm clear enough). > I want to believe that my active, but very discrete presence with a > camera has no influence whatsoever on what is happening around me and > that people and things are just the way the would be without my > presence. How can I be sure? I can never be sure... > > It has been proven that the unconscious mind is aware of (and > memorizes) things the conscious mind didn't even notice. The body > acts according to these things nevertheless! Experiments in (quantum) > physics have shown that results can differ if someone is looking at > the experiment or not... Who am I to pretend that my presence has no > influence whatsoever? > > On the other hand, does it need to show in the picture? No. When your > subject is totally absorbed in whatever s/he is doing, the > photographer/journalist/reporter becomes less and less important and > the subjects seem more and more natural... > > You see Ted, I didn't say you were wrong, I said that "Believing the > subject could "forget" that the photographer is in the room or around > him taking pictures, is just wrong". There was nothing personal about > that. You may believe other things and this is ok with me. > > The subject can ignore the photographer. S/he can pretend the > photographer is not there and act naturally, my opinion is that if > the photographer had a "paparazzi approach" the subject's behaviour > would be different. And this even after weeks and weeks of living > with the subjects. > > All the best from the south of France! > > Tarek > > ------------------------------------------------- > Tarek Charara > <http://www.pix-that-stimulate.com> > > NO ARCHIVE > > > Le 13 janv. 08 ? 15:40, Ted Grant a ?crit : > >> Tarek Charara offered quite unmistakenly! >> Subject: Re: [Leica] When in doubt ask photographer >> >> >> >>>> Ted,I think we are thinking this the other way around: it's not >>>> about the >> photographer, it's about wether the subject is concentrated or not >> on what >> he's doing. Believing the subject could "forget" that the >> photographer is in >> the room or around him taking pictures, is just wrong.<<< >> >> Excuse me? >> >> I don't know what the hell is wrong with some of you people when >> you are >> dealing with a photojournalist with over half century experience of >> working >> in the fashion we're discussing. Then have the audacity to tell me I'm >> WRONG!! :-( Get stuffed! >> >> I have nothing to gain by explaining to you exactly what these >> experiences >> are, but you people are the ones who are wrong! Damn it if I sound >> angry I >> bloody well am! >> >> When I explain to you of daily experience with published books to >> back it up >> not to mention the assignments, do not tell me I'm wrong! >> >>>>> The photographer can be ignored, but that doesn't mean that the >>>>> subject's >> unconscious mind isn't aware of his presence and/or that the >> photographer >> isn't altering the scene by his presence.<<< >> >> Look if you walk into a room and have 2 minutes to get some quick >> hit and >> miss snap you maybe right. >> >> But what appears to be happening here is, you are not listening nor >> do you >> understand the difference between a 2 minute hit and run compared >> to a 5 day >> or 5 weeks day after day shooting in the environment of the subject or >> subjects you're documenting. >> >> Your lack of understanding that it's possible to be there and not have >> absolutely any influence on the subject or subjects is in direct >> ratio to >> your inexperience! Certainly compared to a photojournalist of some >> merit in >> this field regardless of the subject and time. >> >> Thank you all for listening, but for crying out loud get with the >> program >> and listen to experience! >> >> Have a nice day! >> >> ted >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information