Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2008/01/13

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Subject: [Leica] When in doubt ask photographer
From: michiel.fokkema at wanadoo.nl (Michiel Fokkema)
Date: Sun Jan 13 13:03:02 2008
References: <0JUL003MB7FI5600@l-daemon> <86F592BE-2843-4F59-9F8E-A69A284135B5@pix-that-stimulate.com>

Thanks Tarek,

This is exactly what was about to write.

Best regards,

Michiel Fokkema

Tarek Charara wrote:
> Ted,
> 
> may I humbly suggest that according to my experience (a third of a 
> century this year), the mere presence of someone, with or without a 
> camera, active or not, in a particular space just modifies that  space 
> and the behaviour of the other beings in that space, to a certain 
> degree. (I'm having some difficulties expressing this, but hope I'm 
> clear enough).
> I want to believe that my active, but very discrete presence with a 
> camera has no influence whatsoever on what is happening around me and 
> that people and things are just the way the would be without my 
> presence. How can I be sure? I can never be sure...
> 
> It has been proven that the unconscious mind is aware of (and memorizes) 
> things the conscious mind didn't even notice. The body acts according to 
> these things nevertheless! Experiments in (quantum) physics have shown 
> that results can differ if someone is looking at the experiment or 
> not... Who am I to pretend that my presence has no influence whatsoever?
> 
> On the other hand, does it need to show in the picture? No. When your 
> subject is totally absorbed in whatever s/he is doing, the 
> photographer/journalist/reporter  becomes less and less important and 
> the subjects seem more and more natural...
> 
> You see Ted, I didn't say you were wrong, I said that "Believing the 
> subject could "forget" that the photographer is in the room or around 
> him taking pictures, is just wrong". There was nothing personal about 
> that. You may believe other things and this is ok with me.
> 
> The subject can ignore the photographer. S/he can pretend the 
> photographer is not there and act naturally, my opinion is that if the 
> photographer had a "paparazzi approach" the subject's behaviour would be 
> different. And this even after weeks and weeks of living with the subjects.
> 
> All the best from the south of France!
> 
> Tarek
> 
> -------------------------------------------------
> Tarek Charara
> <http://www.pix-that-stimulate.com>
> 
> NO ARCHIVE
> 
> 
> Le 13 janv. 08 ? 15:40, Ted Grant a ?crit :
> 
>> Tarek Charara offered quite unmistakenly!
>> Subject: Re: [Leica] When in doubt ask photographer
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Ted,I think we are thinking this the other way around: it's not 
>>>> about the
>> photographer, it's about wether the subject is concentrated or not on 
>> what
>> he's doing. Believing the subject could "forget" that the photographer 
>> is in
>> the room or around him taking pictures, is just wrong.<<<
>>
>> Excuse me?
>>
>> I don't know what the hell is wrong with some of you people when you are
>> dealing with a photojournalist with over half century experience of 
>> working
>> in the fashion we're discussing. Then have the audacity to tell me I'm
>> WRONG!! :-( Get stuffed!
>>
>> I have nothing to gain by explaining to you exactly what these 
>> experiences
>> are, but you people are the ones who are wrong! Damn it if I sound 
>> angry I
>> bloody well am!
>>
>> When I explain to you of daily experience with published books to back 
>> it up
>> not to mention the assignments, do not tell me I'm wrong!
>>
>>>>> The photographer can be ignored, but that doesn't mean that the 
>>>>> subject's
>> unconscious mind isn't aware of his presence and/or that the photographer
>> isn't altering the scene by his presence.<<<
>>
>> Look if you walk into a room and have 2 minutes to get some quick hit and
>> miss snap you maybe right.
>>
>> But what appears to be happening here is, you are not listening nor do 
>> you
>> understand the difference between a 2 minute hit and run compared to a 
>> 5 day
>> or 5 weeks day after day shooting in the environment of the subject or
>> subjects you're documenting.
>>
>> Your lack of understanding that it's possible to be there and not have
>> absolutely any influence on the subject or subjects is in direct ratio to
>> your inexperience! Certainly compared to a photojournalist of some 
>> merit in
>> this field regardless of the subject and time.
>>
>> Thank you all for listening, but for crying out loud get with the program
>> and listen to experience!
>>
>> Have a nice day!
>>
>> ted
>>
>>
>>
>>
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> 
> 
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In reply to: Message from tedgrant at shaw.ca (Ted Grant) ([Leica] When in doubt ask photographer)