Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2008/01/13
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Both you lads are missing the point here as it has nothing to do with winning or loosing because it's all about learning ! ted -----Original Message----- From: lug-bounces+tedgrant=shaw.ca@leica-users.org [mailto:lug-bounces+tedgrant=shaw.ca@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of Robert Meier Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 4:56 PM To: Leica Users Group Subject: Re: [Leica] When in doubt ask photographer Jerry, I usually react that way too when I'm told to get stuffed. You're right -- it's powerful. And they do think they have won the argument! Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Lehrer" <glehrer@san.rr.com> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [Leica] When in doubt ask photographer > Robert, > > Lots of people have won arguments with me in just that fashion. They tell > me to get stuffed or worse. At that point > I do not reply, and so they believe that they have won. > > Jerry > > > Robert Meier wrote: >> Ted, >> >> You might have said something like, 'after many years of shooting in >> these situations I am convinved that the people I'm photographing forget >> I'm there and are not affected by my presence. But I am a participant in >> these situations and am not an objective observer. Perhaps, consciously >> or unconciously, their behavior is affected -- >> how can I possibly know? I cannot go into their minds.' >> >> Instead, insisting that your years of experience must dominate and that >> your adversaries must accept what you say, therefore, as the sole truth, >> or get stuffed, is not the way to win an argument. >> >> Robert >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Grant" <tedgrant@shaw.ca> >> To: "'Leica Users Group'" <lug@leica-users.org> >> Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2008 8:42 AM >> Subject: RE: [Leica] When in doubt ask photographer >> >> >>> Tarek Charara offered quite unmistakenly! >>> Subject: Re: [Leica] When in doubt ask photographer >>> >>> >>> >>>>> Ted,I think we are thinking this the other way around: it's not about >>>>> the >>> photographer, it's about wether the subject is concentrated or not on >>> what >>> he's doing. Believing the subject could "forget" that the photographer >>> is in >>> the room or around him taking pictures, is just wrong.<<< >>> >>> Excuse me? >>> >>> I don't know what the hell is wrong with some of you people when you are >>> dealing with a photojournalist with over half century experience of >>> working >>> in the fashion we're discussing. Then have the audacity to tell me I'm >>> WRONG!! :-( Get stuffed! >>> >>> I have nothing to gain by explaining to you exactly what these >>> experiences >>> are, but you people are the ones who are wrong! Damn it if I sound angry >>> I >>> bloody well am! >>> >>> When I explain to you of daily experience with published books to back >>> it up >>> not to mention the assignments, do not tell me I'm wrong! >>> >>>>>> The photographer can be ignored, but that doesn't mean that the >>>>>> subject's >>> unconscious mind isn't aware of his presence and/or that the >>> photographer >>> isn't altering the scene by his presence.<<< >>> >>> Look if you walk into a room and have 2 minutes to get some quick hit >>> and >>> miss snap you maybe right. >>> >>> But what appears to be happening here is, you are not listening nor do >>> you >>> understand the difference between a 2 minute hit and run compared to a 5 >>> day >>> or 5 weeks day after day shooting in the environment of the subject or >>> subjects you're documenting. >>> >>> Your lack of understanding that it's possible to be there and not have >>> absolutely any influence on the subject or subjects is in direct ratio >>> to >>> your inexperience! Certainly compared to a photojournalist of some merit >>> in >>> this field regardless of the subject and time. >>> >>> Thank you all for listening, but for crying out loud get with the >>> program >>> and listen to experience! >>> >>> Have a nice day! >>> >>> ted >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _ > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > _______________________________________________ Leica Users Group. See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.19.2/1222 - Release Date: 1/13/2008 12:23 PM