Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2011/02/09

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Subject: [Leica] IMG: annoying banding - is my M8 becoming a paper weight?
From: hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson)
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2011 07:39:22 +1000
References: <4AE947AB-AF74-4E4A-B0AE-DA96FB5D330A@frozenlight.eu> <261015A2-ED0E-4C3A-87BC-2AFB15E8F946@frozenlight.eu> <5CDA7FB5-D644-46CD-9E7F-468F72760406@gmail.com> <AANLkTikk6WJG4pHSow0SpioQ61LCrELs0MzU36Cvh=rk@mail.gmail.com> <7D792F03-C902-4EAE-ACF5-18B4201BFE4A@frozenlight.eu> <AANLkTimo7cNyTfBuLh18QbE11LQ5DxTBWZ4CM9ydk_oP@mail.gmail.com> <62C9B356-EB49-479D-96D1-13C28677659A@frozenlight.eu>

Nathan I just commented on the specific problem you showed. Nothing about
loyalty or positives or negatives or brands.
Nothing about motorcycles or sporty cars either ( although my one Alfa was a
disaster though, I went back to Mazdas!)
I hope that you hear from the technical gurus soon. Certainly nothing like I
have ever seen before.
Cheers
Geoff
http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman


On 10 February 2011 07:27, Nathan Wajsman <photo at frozenlight.eu> wrote:

> Geoff, I know you have a strong loyalty to Leica, as do I. After all, I
> have invested several thousand Euro in Leica equipment since I returned to
> the fold in 2008. And I love the results when thins work (which is most of
> the time, in fairness).
>
> But I just came back from a walk, during which I made the following mental
> calculation: since I took up photography in 1985, I have owned cameras made
> by Pentax, Canon, Olympus, Leica, Hasselblad, Mamiya, Rollei, Fuji and
> Panasonic. Of all those brands, the only one that ever needed repair was
> Leica--both my M7 and M8. Hence my analogy with Italian motorcycles in a
> previous post. I drool over Ducati, but I know that a Honda is much less
> likely to leave me stranded.
>
> Cheers,
> Nathan
>
>
> Nathan Wajsman
> Alicante, Spain
> http://www.frozenlight.eu
> http://www.greatpix.eu
> http://www.nathanfoto.com
> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
> Blog: http://www.fotocycle.dk/blog
>
> YNWA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  On Feb 9, 2011, at 10:16 PM, Geoff Hopkinson wrote:
>
> > Nathan, I think that there are different issues confused here.
> > The fault with fine lines in the sample you showed is not the same as
> what
> > other people call 'banding'. That is more broader bands of uneven tone,
> not
> > a pattern of fine regular lines like your shot has. I have never seen
> that
> > particular effect before(from any camera or posted by anyone). It sounds
> > like it is puzzling the Leica Camera technical people?
> >
> > On low light performance the M9 is anecdotally considered to be at least
> a
> > stop better in low light regarding noise. My personal experience supports
> > that.
> >
> >
> > I looked at what I had from M8 from 1/20th sec down to 12 secs (381
> frames)
> > and have no evidence or banding nor the fine lines fault that you have
> shown
> > in that first photo.
> > Here's something that meets the criteria and contains all on topic
> subjects
> > too ;-)
> >
> > 1/8th f/2.4 1250 ISO M8
> > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/hoppyman/1/T2.jpg.html
> >
> > Cheers
> > Geoff
> > http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
> >
> >
> > On 10 February 2011 06:54, Nathan Wajsman <photo at frozenlight.eu> 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Tina, the light in this place was such that ISO 1250 was required,
> despite
> >> the fast lens. I don't think it is unreasonable to expect decent
> performance
> >> in such conditions.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Nathan
> >>
> >> Nathan Wajsman
> >> Alicante, Spain
> >> http://www.frozenlight.eu
> >> http://www.greatpix.eu
> >> http://www.nathanfoto.com
> >> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
> >> Blog: http://www.fotocycle.dk/blog
> >>
> >> YNWA
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Feb 9, 2011, at 9:38 PM, Tina Manley wrote:
> >>
> >>> Never seen it on my M9, or my M8s for that matter.  I never used the
> M8s
> >>> over 800 ISO, though.  With film, I very occasionally had to push TMax
> >> 400
> >>> to 800 and I used TMax 1600 for candle-light - maybe 10 rolls in 40
> >> years.
> >>> I don't see any reason for using extreme ISOs when we have Leica fast
> >>> lenses.
> >>>
> >>> Tina
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 3:07 PM, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at 
> >>> gmail.com
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Feb 9, 2011, at 12:03 PM, Nathan Wajsman wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Just an update...while Leica is studying the original DNG file and
> has
> >>>> fallen silent, I have just downloaded another batch of photos shot on
> >> Sunday
> >>>> in a bar, and again out of 45 pics about 4 or 5 are affected. This
> time
> >> I
> >>>> used a different card and a different lens, so my only conclusion is
> >> that
> >>>> the M8 sensor cannot cope with low light very well, or at least not my
> >> M8
> >>>> sensor. Does not exactly inspire confidence and gives me serious pause
> >> when
> >>>> considering any future purchase of an M9.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> does this occur with an M9? reported?
> >>>>
> >>>> anyone...
> >>>>
> >>>> Steve
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am slowly coming to the conclusion (not just based on this
> incident,
> >>>> but my overall experience) that Leica is like an Italian sports car or
> >>>> motorcycle: brilliant when it works but unreliable.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nathan
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nathan Wajsman
> >>>>> Alicante, Spain
> >>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
> >>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu
> >>>>> http://www.nathanfoto.com
> >>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
> >>>>> Blog: http://www.fotocycle.dk/blog
> >>>>>
> >>>>> YNWA
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Jan 24, 2011, at 8:01 AM, Nathan Wajsman wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Just unloaded a memory card with about 60 Leica M8 images. Of those,
> >>>> four had annoying banding such as this one:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> http://www.greatpix.eu/All/Picture-A-Day/4253606_netUM#1166286723_jgdU7-O-LB
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> This is the first time I have seen this since buying the M8 in
> >> December
> >>>> 2008. I suppose I should concluded that Leica's quality control is
> >> precisely
> >>>> tuned so that the thing starts acting up just after the 2-year
> warranty
> >>>> expires.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Has anyone else encountered a similar problem? If this gets worse, I
> >>>> will have to send the M8 to Solms, good thing I have my GF-1....
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>>> Nathan (not a happy camper this Monday morning)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Nathan Wajsman
> >>>>>> Alicante, Spain
> >>>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu
> >>>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu
> >>>>>> http://www.nathanfoto.com
> >>>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws
> >>>>>> Blog: http://www.fotocycle.dk/blog
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> YNWA
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Leica Users Group.
> >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
> information
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Leica Users Group.
> >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Leica Users Group.
> >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Tina Manley, ASMP
> >>> www.tinamanley.com
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Leica Users Group.
> >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Leica Users Group.
> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Leica Users Group.
> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>


Replies: Reply from richard at imagecraft.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] IMG: annoying banding - is my M8 becoming a paper weight?)
In reply to: Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] IMG: annoying banding - is my M8 becoming a paper weight?)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] IMG: annoying banding - is my M8 becoming a paper weight?)
Message from steve.barbour at gmail.com (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] IMG: annoying banding - is my M8 becoming a paper weight?)
Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] IMG: annoying banding - is my M8 becoming a paper weight?)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] IMG: annoying banding - is my M8 becoming a paper weight?)
Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] IMG: annoying banding - is my M8 becoming a paper weight?)
Message from photo at frozenlight.eu (Nathan Wajsman) ([Leica] IMG: annoying banding - is my M8 becoming a paper weight?)