Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2011/10/21
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]that's odd when i look it up on wiki, it says havens covered the dylan tune which was written in 1967 it is one of his most covered songs, and i have never before heard that he stole it from havens i'd love to see the article that refers to that--all i can find is one reference in one anonymous comment on a marcus article thanks ric On Oct 21, 2011, at 11:26 AM, Chris Saganich wrote: > All along the watchtower is a Richie Havens song. Hendrix's version if so > similar to how Havens plays, his guitar style (and a trained ear can hear > it > a mile away), that I suspect Havens is playing the acustic guitar on the > track. Dylan coped songs from everyone he encountered, he was a sponge > soaking it up and ringing it out, this was his genius. This is why he was > so popular, everyone thinks they already know the song. No one ever > accused > him of being a master of originality, he was an absolute conformist who > soaked up the normative culture and put it back out for consumption. > That's > why he had to break from it, he created a monster for himself. At some > point early on he learned he could take full credit for thinly disguised > traditional songs. This was a long standing tradition in the publishing > industry except that the artists rarely received the publishing royalties. > Perhaps Dylan though why should people like Howie Richmond, Harold > Leventhal, and Pete Kameron get the publishing rights? An interesting > copyright case study is the song "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" and the tin Pan > Alley practice of creating fake authors for slightly different versions of > songs that were thought to be traditional; one might ask why publish under > a > pseudonym? Dylan obviously feels he can put his name on these slightly > altered versions of other peoples work and collect the royalties. As a > musician it was plausible that he actually wrote the music and authored the > words, but as a painter we see how less plausible it actually is. > > All this BTW is plagiarized from Wikipedia but I added enough of my own > thoughts to claim it is mine. > > Chris > > On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Tina Manley <images at comporium.net> > wrote: > >> No, you're not mistaken. Joni Mitchell accused him of plagiarizing the >> old >> labor songs for his lyrics. >> >> Tina >> >> On Thu, Oct 20, 2011 at 8:55 AM, Jean-Michel Mertz <j2m46 at hotmail.fr> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Well, yes, what's being creative? Is it pointing out what we hadn't seen >> so >>> far, putting things in a different perspective and giving us (the reader, >>> the viewer, the listener ...) a new insight into the meaning of life, >> since >>> this is what we are all looking for? Is there a difference between >>> Giacometti copying African art, La Fontaine plagiarizing Aesop and Bob >>> Dylan using a series of photographies which are not of his own making? >>> Actually, I think there are sources - archetypes - which are part of our >>> heritage and which are being reinterpreted generation after generation by >>> the ones we recognize - though it does take some time - as poets, >> artists, >>> etc. What do you call new and creative when someone wrote thousands of >> years >>> ago that "the thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that >>> which is done, is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing >> under >>> the sun." Nevertheless I believe Bob Dylan should be open about his >> sources. >>> I think I've read somewhere that the lyrics of his famous "How many >> times" >>> or even of "The times they are a'changing" are not really his, but I >> might >>> be mistaken ...Jean-Michel > From: philippe.amard at sfr.fr >>>> To: lug at leica-users.org >>>> Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2011 20:05:28 +0200 >>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Plagarism >>>> >>>> Tina, >>>> >>>> I can't see where the problem lies in fact - a photo is a photo >>>> alright, and a painting is a painting alright too - the art is >>>> different, the crafting is also different - I dk if it makes sense to >>>> anyone, but me... >>>> Even though I bet those of us photogs who've used brushes in their >>>> lives might concur. >>>> >>>> Most painters have been using photos or photographic techniques over >>>> the years - from the Dutch masters to the super/hyper-realists. >>>> Hockney also did both. >>>> Most photogs have been influenced by painters, is that a problem? >>>> I don't know a good photog who can disclaim this - HCB was so strict >>>> on composition, inherited from, guess what ... >>>> >>>> For me it all boils down to: As a viewer, do I like it, or not? >>>> whatever the gear. >>>> >>>> In the meantime, Van Gogh has now been killed by teenagers. A sign of >>>> the times? >>>> >>>> Bien cordialement de Metz >>>> Philippe >>>> >>>> >>>> Le 19 oct. 11 ? 16:52, Tina Manley a ?crit : >>>> >>>>> LUG: >>>>> >>>>> By Bob Dylan, no less: >>>>> >>>>> >>> >> http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/26/questions-raised-about-dylan-show-at-gagosian/?ref=artsf >>>>> >>>>> The other examples I've seen on the internet are exact copies of >>>>> photographs, including those by Henri Cartier-Bresson. >>>>> >>>>> I have had several artists request to use my photos for their >>>>> paintings. I >>>>> always give permission with the qualification that they must include >> a >>>>> notice that the painting is based on a photo copyrighted by Tina >>>>> Manley. >>>>> Looks like Dylan failed to ask permission or even acknowledge that >>>>> he uses >>>>> photographs! >>>>> >>>>> Tina >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Tina Manley, ASMP >>>>> www.tinamanley.com >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> NO ARCHIVE >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Tina Manley, ASMP >> www.tinamanley.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > > > -- > Chris Saganich > www.imagebrooklyn.com > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information