Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2012/05/30

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Subject: [Leica] Endgadget on the MM
From: mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 18:01:44 -0400

I assume you mean using the Leica glass on the canon camera?
As glass is a big issue too.
And from what hear Leica glass on canon cameras are no picnic.
For some reason it works better with Nikons.

- - from my iRabs.
Mark Rabiner
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/springdays/


> From: Tina Manley <images at comporium.net>
> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 17:56:06 -0400
> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Endgadget on the MM
> 
> Mark -  I'm just going by what I see when I use both.  I have a Canon 5D
> and 1DMII with CMOS sensors and Leica M9 and M8 and DMR with CCD sensors.
>  When I look at the photos at 100%, I like the fine detail that I get with
> CCD.  It could have something to do with the lenses, but I believe the
> sensors are to blame or credit for a good bit of the detail.  If I had to
> give up high ISO performance to get fine detail, I would do it - and have.
>  It looks like that choice won't be required with the MM.
> 
> Tina
> 
> On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 5:44 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> 
> wrote:
> 
>> Tina I don't believe that you and I and others on the LUG really know what
>> it really means to be shooting with a CCD (charge coupled device) or a 
>> CMOS
>> (complementary metal oxide semiconductor) image sensor unless we happen to
>> be electronic computer engineers which few of us are.
>> I'm just not buying it the people preferring the look of one over the
>> other.
>> Its the emperors new clothes. We pretend we are seeing things we  really
>> can't.
>> All we really know is how it effects our shooting.
>> We are living in a world in which we are competing against photographers
>> who
>> can shoot at 5 EV's higher then we so far can. (M9 shooters vs. 
>> Canon/Nikon
>> DSLR shooters)
>> They are getting depth of friend and capturing action in the dark;
>> While we are shooting wide open and hoping nobody moves.
>> 
>> I think the M9 shooters who are able to upgrade to the new M9  Polychrome
>> will be happy as clams. There is no downside. The upgrade will for sure be
>> UP.
>> We need to trust Leica for having some real intelligence and integrity.
>> If they find a different nature of image sensor to be preferable then they
>> proably know what they are talking about. They are in the camera business
>> As are the 99.99% of photographers who are shooting the CMOS sensors as we
>> speak. Hitting deadlines. ...Seeing their results on the web and printed
>> media around the world.
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.teledynedalsa.com/corp/markets/ccd_vs_cmos.aspx
>> - - from my iRabs.
>> Mark Rabiner
>> 
>> 
>>> From: Tina Manley <images at comporium.net>
>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 17:22:35 -0400
>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Endgadget on the MM
>>> 
>>> I am one.  I want to be able to take B&W photos with my Leica digital
>>> camera that equal those I shot with B&W film.  The M9 is wonderful, but
>> the
>>> high ISOs leave a lot to be desired.  I could push TMax 400 to 800 or
>> even
>>> use TMax 3200 and still get acceptable negatives.  I can't get acceptable
>>> photos from the M9 at 3200 ISO.  It's marginal at 800.  If the Leica MM
>>> delivers B&W photos that have shadow detail without excessive noise at
>> 3200
>>> or even 1600, it will be well worth the price to me.  I'm looking forward
>>> to more dynamic range and lots of fine detail at higher ISOs.  The DNGs
>>> posted show this is possible with the MM.
>>> 
>>> I don't want a CMOS sensor.  I've already compared the two and much
>> prefer
>>> what I get from CCD.  Why would I want anything that is already available
>>> with the Canon I have and hate?
>>> 
>>> Tina
>>> 
>>> On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 5:08 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> What's on my mind is the people who would buy the Leica M9 Monochrom
>> would
>>>> be who?
>>>> What's on my mind is the state of black and white image making after a
>>>> decade of people shooting digital many of them like myself who were
>> black
>>>> and white specialists in film didn't feel the urge to specialize in
>> black
>>>> and white in digital.
>>>> 
>>>> With Erwin mentioning stuff like the new sensor on the M9 will be CMOS
>> it
>>>> appears that the way long overdue sensor for the M9 is not a permeant
>>>> invisible dream.:
>>>> "This intention has been stated several times by high-ranking Leica
>>>> officials and during the Berlin interview sessions Mr. Kaufmann made
>> hardly
>>>> disguised remarks in this direction."
>>>> 
>>>> So a new sensor competitive with the best from Canon and Nikon is not a
>> fig
>>>> Newton of someone else's imagination.
>>>> Its history which just hasn't gotten around to happening yet.
>>>> 
>>>> You can have that kind of power ahead of time if you can get an M9
>>>> Monochrom.
>>>> And feel what its like to shoot like you did in the 1990's.
>>>> When filters  meant something.
>>>> If I was a few notches higher in the dead presidents deparment I'd
>>>> certainly
>>>> get one.
>>>> But if I had the cash in pocket I'd let it sit and fester till the M9
>> goes
>>>> CMOS.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> - - from my iRabs.
>>>> Mark Rabiner
>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/springdays/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Tina Manley, ASMP
>>> www.tinamanley.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tina Manley, ASMP
> www.tinamanley.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information




Replies: Reply from john at mcmaster.co.nz (John McMaster) ([Leica] Endgadget on the MM)
Reply from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] Endgadget on the MM)
In reply to: Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] Endgadget on the MM)