Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/05/08

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Subject: [Leica] Winogrand exhibit
From: richard at richardmanphoto.com (Richard Man)
Date: Wed, 8 May 2013 20:59:04 -0700
References: <CAF8hL-Fot52sRmd6JQrknM7uWUsvZ66iqgnf6FkGuuH2vzBvJw@mail.gmail.com> <CDB08F9A.92E8%mark@rabinergroup.com>

Mark, have you SEEN the exhibit? How can you tell anything from a contact
sheet JPG that is dark and muddy?

Besides, you are the one making accusation, I am making an observation.




On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 8:26 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> 
wrote:

>
> http://blog.ricecracker.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Winogrand-contact-she
> et-950x811.jpg
> Or
> http://tinyurl.com/c2ppuu3
>
> A really tasteless personally integrity slight against  one of our great
> photographers. One could look a the work of Diane Arbus and Lee Friedlander
> and count the non white faces and make cracks about them it would be just
> as
> crassly ridiculous.
> Did Winogrand avoid getting non white faces in his camera frame? Just what
> are you saying here?
>
>
>
>
> On 5/8/13 9:44 PM, "Richard Man" <richard at richardmanphoto.com> wrote:
>
> > Nope, THAT image is particularly controversial (whether he intends it or
> > not is another matter). And nope, I just google image his name, and other
> > than THAT one, I still do not see images of people of color.
> >
> >
> > On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 6:29 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> I just Google contact sheeted Garry Winogrand .
> >> The every first pic which comes up involves people of color.
> >>  and the 3rd and 5th shots So it seems to be a pattern here in which
> every
> >> other pix involves a person of color.
> >> It seems he was not ignoring them. Would seem to have no problem with
> other
> >> than white people during an era of the civil rights movement in which
> you'd
> >> have to be very blind to not be having a lot of empathy with that
> struggle
> >> and probably be a bit involved yourself....
> >> A key shot which comes up often is this one:
> >>
> http://www.thephoblographer.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/winogrand.jpg
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5/7/13 12:35 AM, "Richard Man" <richard at richardmanphoto.com> 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> I will just let the observation stands - there's no Asian and few
> African
> >>> Americans in his vast collection of photos (that we know of).
> >>>
> >>> Whether it's a subject worth analyzing or not is another matter.
> Probably
> >>> not.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Lew Schwartz <lew1716 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Well, he certainly had a lot of skill, and what we see is the result
> of
> >> a
> >>>> lot of editing. We don't know for a fact who or what everything was
> >> that he
> >>>> actually photographed. Ok, ok; I know ... same difference ... move the
> >>>> argument over to what we actually see after edits. I don't understand
> >> the
> >>>> kind of bias you're hinting at. If someone shoots cowboy shows, which
> he
> >>>> did, would that make him biased against antique fairs? I also don't
> >> think
> >>>> of criticism as a form of acknowledgement or recognition.
> >>>> It's like "Criticize me!! That way I'll at least know you know I'm
> >>>> here."  Good criticism is way more than this. Poor people and rich
> >> people
> >>>> don't go in for this sort of attention and neither do I, although I'm
> >>>> neither.
> >>>>
> >>>> -Lew Schwartz
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Richard Man <
> >> richard at richardmanphoto.com
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Lew, may be it's a form of approval,... or may be it is a form of
> color
> >>>>> blindness. Come on, during the long period he photographed, from 40s
> to
> >>>>> 80s, there were no interesting, even people to be critical about, of
> >>>> other
> >>>>> races that he had met or seen?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We are not talking someone who takes 100 pictures or even 1000
> >> pictures a
> >>>>> year. In that case, what do you expect type of thing. He takes 100
> >>>> pictures
> >>>>> a day easily. If you roam the streets of LA, or NY etc. and take that
> >>>> many
> >>>>> pictures, it takes skills not to take pictures of people of colors or
> >>>>> Asians...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 8:48 PM, Lew Schwartz <lew1716 at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm not sure I entirely understand Richards remarks. Winogrand never
> >>>>>> represented himself to be a news photographer, although he
> undoubtedly
> >>>>> took
> >>>>>> assignments and was presented to the public under that rubric. I've
> >>>>> always
> >>>>>> thought of him as highly critical of the society he photographed.
> His
> >>>>>> omissions may be a form of approval.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -Lew Schwartz
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 11:35 PM, Phil Swango <pswango at att.net>
> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Richard Man wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Winograd is not my favorite street artist, mainly because it's the
> >>>>> same
> >>>>>>>> type of photos he shot. For example, the periods he covered
> >>>> included
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> civil rights movement and of all the hundreds of photos in the
> >>>> show,
> >>>>>>> there
> >>>>>>>> are may be 3-4 photos where African American are present, and as
> >>>> far
> >>>>> as
> >>>>>>> we
> >>>>>>>> can tell, exactly one photo where there is an Asian present - and
> >>>>> only
> >>>>>>>> because she was pretty and had goofy hair.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Interesting thoughts Richard.  We just had a lecture in the local
> >>>>> museum
> >>>>>>> about race, representation and photography.  There's also an
> >>>>> interesting
> >>>>>>> new book in which an AA female photographer shoots her white
> friends
> >>>>> and
> >>>>>>> muses on whether and how race may figure into reading the photo.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/22/some-of-her-best-friends-are-white/
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If the link doesn't work look up Myra Greene.  The book is "My
> White
> >>>>>>> Friends."  I've ordered it.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> --
> >>>>>>> Phil Swango
> >>>>>>> 307 Aliso Dr SE
> >>>>>>> Albuquerque, NM 87108
> >>>>>>> 505-262-4085
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
> >>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
> information
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>>> Leica Users Group.
> >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more
> information
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> // richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
> >>>>> // http://facebook.com/richardmanphoto
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Leica Users Group.
> >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Leica Users Group.
> >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mark William Rabiner
> >> Photography
> >> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Leica Users Group.
> >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> --
> Mark William Rabiner
> Photography
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>



-- 
// richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com>
// http://facebook.com/richardmanphoto


Replies: Reply from imra at iol.ie (Douglas Barry) ([Leica] Winogrand exhibit)
Reply from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Winogrand exhibit)
In reply to: Message from richard at richardmanphoto.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] Winogrand exhibit)
Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Winogrand exhibit)