Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/05/08
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Mark, did you read everything I write? I made an observation. Viewers of his exhibit can judge for themselves about my observation, which once again is "few photos in his exhibit have people of colors, and exactly one Asian that we can find." I am not accusing him of anything. Anyone can confirm or refute my observation. The exhibit is still open and you can purchase the book for $50. May be it;s the curator and has billions of photos of African American in his vast quantity of negatives, but this exhibit does not show it. You are making accusation, I am not. Please have some restrain that you speak of. On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 9:10 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote: > Have you seen his Rolodex? > Because it really appears you are accusing Garry Winogrand of racism. > And you don't know much about him. > The idea that he'd have any problem with having people of color in his > frame > is patently absurd. > When one makes slights against a someone's personal integrity some > restraint > in in order. Even if that person is not a towering figure of a particular > type. In this case a photographer who dedicated his life to capture the > world around him and who did it with some success. > Is this a controversy? > Has anyone in the history of the world ever said anything about the color > of > the people the great Garry Winogrand photographed? OF COURSE NOT. > > > On 5/8/13 11:59 PM, "Richard Man" <richard at richardmanphoto.com> wrote: > > > Mark, have you SEEN the exhibit? How can you tell anything from a contact > > sheet JPG that is dark and muddy? > > > > Besides, you are the one making accusation, I am making an observation. > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 8:26 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> > wrote: > > > >> > >> > http://blog.ricecracker.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Winogrand-contact-she > >> et-950x811.jpg > >> Or > >> http://tinyurl.com/c2ppuu3 > >> > >> A really tasteless personally integrity slight against one of our great > >> photographers. One could look a the work of Diane Arbus and Lee > Friedlander > >> and count the non white faces and make cracks about them it would be > just > >> as > >> crassly ridiculous. > >> Did Winogrand avoid getting non white faces in his camera frame? Just > what > >> are you saying here? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> On 5/8/13 9:44 PM, "Richard Man" <richard at richardmanphoto.com> wrote: > >> > >>> Nope, THAT image is particularly controversial (whether he intends it > or > >>> not is another matter). And nope, I just google image his name, and > other > >>> than THAT one, I still do not see images of people of color. > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 6:29 PM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>>> I just Google contact sheeted Garry Winogrand . > >>>> The every first pic which comes up involves people of color. > >>>> and the 3rd and 5th shots So it seems to be a pattern here in which > >> every > >>>> other pix involves a person of color. > >>>> It seems he was not ignoring them. Would seem to have no problem with > >> other > >>>> than white people during an era of the civil rights movement in which > >> you'd > >>>> have to be very blind to not be having a lot of empathy with that > >> struggle > >>>> and probably be a bit involved yourself.... > >>>> A key shot which comes up often is this one: > >>>> > >> > http://www.thephoblographer.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/winogrand.jpg > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 5/7/13 12:35 AM, "Richard Man" <richard at richardmanphoto.com> > wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> I will just let the observation stands - there's no Asian and few > >> African > >>>>> Americans in his vast collection of photos (that we know of). > >>>>> > >>>>> Whether it's a subject worth analyzing or not is another matter. > >> Probably > >>>>> not. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 9:31 PM, Lew Schwartz <lew1716 at gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Well, he certainly had a lot of skill, and what we see is the result > >> of > >>>> a > >>>>>> lot of editing. We don't know for a fact who or what everything was > >>>> that he > >>>>>> actually photographed. Ok, ok; I know ... same difference ... move > the > >>>>>> argument over to what we actually see after edits. I don't > understand > >>>> the > >>>>>> kind of bias you're hinting at. If someone shoots cowboy shows, > which > >> he > >>>>>> did, would that make him biased against antique fairs? I also don't > >>>> think > >>>>>> of criticism as a form of acknowledgement or recognition. > >>>>>> It's like "Criticize me!! That way I'll at least know you know I'm > >>>>>> here." Good criticism is way more than this. Poor people and rich > >>>> people > >>>>>> don't go in for this sort of attention and neither do I, although > I'm > >>>>>> neither. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> -Lew Schwartz > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 12:10 AM, Richard Man < > >>>> richard at richardmanphoto.com > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> Lew, may be it's a form of approval,... or may be it is a form of > >> color > >>>>>>> blindness. Come on, during the long period he photographed, from > 40s > >> to > >>>>>>> 80s, there were no interesting, even people to be critical about, > of > >>>>>> other > >>>>>>> races that he had met or seen? > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> We are not talking someone who takes 100 pictures or even 1000 > >>>> pictures a > >>>>>>> year. In that case, what do you expect type of thing. He takes 100 > >>>>>> pictures > >>>>>>> a day easily. If you roam the streets of LA, or NY etc. and take > that > >>>>>> many > >>>>>>> pictures, it takes skills not to take pictures of people of colors > or > >>>>>>> Asians... > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 8:48 PM, Lew Schwartz <lew1716 at gmail.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I'm not sure I entirely understand Richards remarks. Winogrand > never > >>>>>>>> represented himself to be a news photographer, although he > >> undoubtedly > >>>>>>> took > >>>>>>>> assignments and was presented to the public under that rubric. > I've > >>>>>>> always > >>>>>>>> thought of him as highly critical of the society he photographed. > >> His > >>>>>>>> omissions may be a form of approval. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> -Lew Schwartz > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Mon, May 6, 2013 at 11:35 PM, Phil Swango <pswango at att.net> > >> wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Richard Man wrote: > >>>>>>>>>> Winograd is not my favorite street artist, mainly because it's > the > >>>>>>> same > >>>>>>>>>> type of photos he shot. For example, the periods he covered > >>>>>> included > >>>>>>>> the > >>>>>>>>>> civil rights movement and of all the hundreds of photos in the > >>>>>> show, > >>>>>>>>> there > >>>>>>>>>> are may be 3-4 photos where African American are present, and as > >>>>>> far > >>>>>>> as > >>>>>>>>> we > >>>>>>>>>> can tell, exactly one photo where there is an Asian present - > and > >>>>>>> only > >>>>>>>>>> because she was pretty and had goofy hair. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Interesting thoughts Richard. We just had a lecture in the local > >>>>>>> museum > >>>>>>>>> about race, representation and photography. There's also an > >>>>>>> interesting > >>>>>>>>> new book in which an AA female photographer shoots her white > >> friends > >>>>>>> and > >>>>>>>>> muses on whether and how race may figure into reading the photo. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >> > http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/22/some-of-her-best-friends-are-white/ > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> If the link doesn't work look up Myra Greene. The book is "My > >> White > >>>>>>>>> Friends." I've ordered it. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>>>> Phil Swango > >>>>>>>>> 307 Aliso Dr SE > >>>>>>>>> Albuquerque, NM 87108 > >>>>>>>>> 505-262-4085 > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group. > >>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more > >> information > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>>> Leica Users Group. > >>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more > >> information > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> // richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com> > >>>>>>> // http://facebook.com/richardmanphoto > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>>> Leica Users Group. > >>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more > information > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Leica Users Group. > >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more > information > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Mark William Rabiner > >>>> Photography > >>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Leica Users Group. > >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Mark William Rabiner > >> Photography > >> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Leica Users Group. > >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > >> > > > > > > > > > -- > Mark William Rabiner > Photography > http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > -- // richard <http://www.richardmanphoto.com> // http://facebook.com/richardmanphoto