Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/05/25
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Steve I have looked at those very nice new designs from FujiFilm locally too. The appeal is certainly obvious and they deserve to be successful. >From my perspective it makes more sense to use them with their native lenses to use all of their capabilities. As far as I know Leica Camera are selling as much as they can make and more than any time in recent history. I think that more photographers have become interested too and buy some portion of that product as they always have. Still very much a tiny niche part of the market of course. Lots of us frustrated waiting for the M typ 240 to be delivered certainly. I am still using my M9 while I am looking forward to an improved version of it (which is how I think of the M). I can only speak for my local area. Here the availability of M lenses is by far the best I have ever seen in my 6 years of involvement. You can get anything at all, including the exotics immediately off the shelf. The sole exception I can think of the the APO Summicron 50 but that one is a truly bleeding edge statement piece I think, probably akin to the first Nocti in production challenges and astronomical price for that matter. Never intended for volume production as far as I know. The M-E is on those shelves too. The S system is reportedly now holding 20% of the tiny medium format market. As far as the new mystery Mini M obviously none of us know exactly what it will be and how well it will work just yet. I do think that a lot of the predictions we read in the groups are more personal wishlists. I suspect that many of those predictors will be very annoyed when their birthday cakes have the wrong flavour frosting ;-) My personal fearless prediction (SWAG!) is that it won't be an M at all or something you can put M lenses on. Feel free to taunt me after June 11 if I am completely wrong! *Breathe in, breathe out, move on* -- Jimmy Buffett Cheers Geoff http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman On 26 May 2013 01:05, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at gmail.com> wrote: > > On May 25, 2013, at 7:21 AM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at gmail.com> > wrote: > > > I don't know if this translates well. In Australia we call this the " > tall > > poppy syndrome". Some people enjoy taking swipes at anyone successful. > Good > > on them. Of course it is in our interest too that Leica Camera does well. > > They make products that some of us value a lot for the photographs that > we > > can make with them and for the experience of using those products to > > achieve that, They can sell as much as they want to anyone that may value > > their products for whatever reason they wish. Why would you care if you > > value Leica for the photographs you can make? > > If at this time virtually all of the product is going to people who don't > make photographs, you can bet that I/we should care about it. Of course it > is impacting our ability to make photos right now. But I don't think that > you have answered my question. The short run is already surely impacted as > I have just noted. I was asking about the longer run. What does this model > predict in terms of future optical quality? > > I am now using a wonderful 1950's Leica Summicron 50/2 on a Fujifilm XE-1 > body, with a better experience and with better results than with the latest > Leica glass on my M9. Leica quality clearly is already compromised, and > their plan to sell expensive gear to non users means that they are not > currently giving priority to the practical needs of professionals and > discriminating users. > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > *Breathe in, breathe out, move on* -- Jimmy Buffett > > > > Cheers > > Geoff > > http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman > > > > > > On 26 May 2013 00:04, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> > >> On May 25, 2013, at 6:55 AM, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Nathan, > >>> It has taken you a very long time to realize and accept this. I was > sure > >> of > >>> the strategic shift in marketing with the M8 itself - it was so > obvious - > >>> the marketing, the choice of magazines for advertisements, the > >> positioning, > >>> the advertorials, etc. With Blackstone's entrance, it was doubly > obvious, > >>> especially when the ostensible reason for the investment was to spread > >> the > >>> Leica Boutiques, not develop new products. IMHO, it is great for them, > >>> because as in all MOJO businesses, the margins are obscene, and as > Joseph > >>> points out, there are enough people in the emerging world to pay for > the > >>> bulk of the production (not only the M series but the S series as > well). > >> It > >>> is not dissimilar to what the Bordeaux market has gone through in the > >> last > >>> few years, and what the Burgundy market is going through now - though I > >>> believe that over 50% of the bottles sold in China are fakes, because > as > >> in > >>> all such markets, the labels matter (Mojo), not the intrinsic quality. > It > >>> will be interesting to see what will happen to Leica as growth in China > >>> keeps slowing down, as is bound to happen. Remember, this will shaft > the > >>> Russian market as well, because energy prices would nosedive. As far > as > >> I > >>> can see, they have alienated most of their traditional clientele, bar a > >>> few, and I wonder where they would go to make up the volumes. They just > >> do > >>> not have a diversified enough customer base to withstand a big topline > >> hit. > >>> It is going to be interesting. The best thing for all of us would be if > >> all > >>> those unused Leicas in China come on the used market at the same time, > as > >>> herd behaviour takes hold, and cause a glut there. > >>> > >>> I would look to a Leica IPO for Blackstone and Kaufmann to cash out > >> sooner > >>> rather than later, if growth in China keeps drifting down. > >> > >> > >> Jayanand, > >> > >> jewelry for rich clients who don't use it, or who use it with minimal > >> knowledge of its qualities and capabilities, makes the future sound > rather > >> ominous. > >> > >> What does this model predict in terms of future optical quality? > >> > >> > >> Steve > >> > >> > >>> > >>> Cheers > >>> Jayanand > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Nathan Wajsman <photo at > >>> frozenlight.eu > >>> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Right. So Leica has made a strategic shift from the photography > business > >>>> to the jewelry business. Fair enough, the Blackstone people obviously > >> know > >>>> where the money is. But then they should be up front about it so that > >> the > >>>> photography dealers can switch their focus to companies that actually > >> are > >>>> interested in supplying photographers. > >>>> > >>>> Cheers, > >>>> Nathan > >>>> > >>>> Nathan Wajsman > >>>> Alicante, Spain > >>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu > >>>> http://www.greatpix.eu > >>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws > >>>> Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/ > >>>> > >>>> YNWA > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On May 25, 2013, at 2:28 PM, Joseph Yao wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Leica have been shipping sufficient quantities of the new M240. They > >> may > >>>>> not have been sending them to their 'traditional' markets where their > >>>> profit > >>>>> margins are lower. You will see plenty of M240 in, for example, > >> Beijing > >>>> and > >>>>> Shanghai, where the going rate for one is US$12,000 to US$13,000. > >>>>> > >>>>> A handful of limited production silver chrome MM have been made for > the > >>>>> Chinese market, and available at RMB 1,581,000 each, approx. > >> US$258,280. > >>>>> > >>>>> Joseph > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Leica Users Group. > >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > >>>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Leica Users Group. > >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Leica Users Group. > >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Leica Users Group. > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >