Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/05/25
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]On May 25, 2013, at 3:24 PM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at gmail.com> wrote: > Steve I have looked at those very nice new designs from FujiFilm locally > too. The appeal is certainly obvious and they deserve to be successful. >> From my perspective it makes more sense to use them with their native > lenses to use all of their capabilities. > > As far as I know Leica Camera are selling as much as they can make and more > than any time in recent history. I think that more photographers have > become interested too and buy some portion of that product as they always > have. Still very much a tiny niche part of the market of course. > > Lots of us frustrated waiting for the M typ 240 to be delivered certainly. > I am still using my M9 while I am looking forward to an improved version of > it (which is how I think of the M). > > I can only speak for my local area. Here the availability of M lenses is by > far the best I have ever seen in my 6 years of involvement. You can get > anything at all, including the exotics immediately off the shelf. The sole > exception I can think of the the APO Summicron 50 but that one is a truly > bleeding edge statement piece I think, probably akin to the first Nocti in > production challenges and astronomical price for that matter. Never > intended for volume production as far as I know. The M-E is on those > shelves too. > The S system is reportedly now holding 20% of the tiny medium format > market. > As far as the new mystery Mini M obviously none of us know exactly what it > will be and how well it will work just yet. I do think that a lot of the > predictions we read in the groups are more personal wishlists. I suspect > that many of those predictors will be very annoyed when their birthday > cakes have the wrong flavour frosting ;-) > > My personal fearless prediction (SWAG!) is that it won't be an M at all or > something you can put M lenses on. Feel free to taunt me after June 11 if I > am completely wrong! thanks Hoppy for your insights and thoughts, while considerably more optomistic than mine certainly time will tell, and well one of us may be wrong or both of us may be wrong. > > > *Breathe in, breathe out, move on* -- Jimmy Buffett > > Cheers > Geoff > http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman > > > On 26 May 2013 01:05, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> On May 25, 2013, at 7:21 AM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> I don't know if this translates well. In Australia we call this the " >> tall >>> poppy syndrome". Some people enjoy taking swipes at anyone successful. >> Good >>> on them. Of course it is in our interest too that Leica Camera does well. >>> They make products that some of us value a lot for the photographs that >> we >>> can make with them and for the experience of using those products to >>> achieve that, They can sell as much as they want to anyone that may value >>> their products for whatever reason they wish. Why would you care if you >>> value Leica for the photographs you can make? >> >> If at this time virtually all of the product is going to people who don't >> make photographs, you can bet that I/we should care about it. Of course it >> is impacting our ability to make photos right now. But I don't think that >> you have answered my question. The short run is already surely impacted as >> I have just noted. I was asking about the longer run. What does this model >> predict in terms of future optical quality? >> >> I am now using a wonderful 1950's Leica Summicron 50/2 on a Fujifilm XE-1 >> body, with a better experience and with better results than with the >> latest >> Leica glass on my M9. Leica quality clearly is already compromised, and >> their plan to sell expensive gear to non users means that they are not >> currently giving priority to the practical needs of professionals and >> discriminating users. >> >> >> Steve >> >> >> >>> >>> >>> *Breathe in, breathe out, move on* -- Jimmy Buffett >>> >>> Cheers >>> Geoff >>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman >>> >>> >>> On 26 May 2013 00:04, Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> On May 25, 2013, at 6:55 AM, Jayanand Govindaraj <jayanand at gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Nathan, >>>>> It has taken you a very long time to realize and accept this. I was >> sure >>>> of >>>>> the strategic shift in marketing with the M8 itself - it was so >> obvious - >>>>> the marketing, the choice of magazines for advertisements, the >>>> positioning, >>>>> the advertorials, etc. With Blackstone's entrance, it was doubly >> obvious, >>>>> especially when the ostensible reason for the investment was to spread >>>> the >>>>> Leica Boutiques, not develop new products. IMHO, it is great for them, >>>>> because as in all MOJO businesses, the margins are obscene, and as >> Joseph >>>>> points out, there are enough people in the emerging world to pay for >> the >>>>> bulk of the production (not only the M series but the S series as >> well). >>>> It >>>>> is not dissimilar to what the Bordeaux market has gone through in the >>>> last >>>>> few years, and what the Burgundy market is going through now - though I >>>>> believe that over 50% of the bottles sold in China are fakes, because >> as >>>> in >>>>> all such markets, the labels matter (Mojo), not the intrinsic quality. >> It >>>>> will be interesting to see what will happen to Leica as growth in China >>>>> keeps slowing down, as is bound to happen. Remember, this will shaft >> the >>>>> Russian market as well, because energy prices would nosedive. As far >> as >>>> I >>>>> can see, they have alienated most of their traditional clientele, bar a >>>>> few, and I wonder where they would go to make up the volumes. They just >>>> do >>>>> not have a diversified enough customer base to withstand a big topline >>>> hit. >>>>> It is going to be interesting. The best thing for all of us would be if >>>> all >>>>> those unused Leicas in China come on the used market at the same time, >> as >>>>> herd behaviour takes hold, and cause a glut there. >>>>> >>>>> I would look to a Leica IPO for Blackstone and Kaufmann to cash out >>>> sooner >>>>> rather than later, if growth in China keeps drifting down. >>>> >>>> >>>> Jayanand, >>>> >>>> jewelry for rich clients who don't use it, or who use it with minimal >>>> knowledge of its qualities and capabilities, makes the future sound >> rather >>>> ominous. >>>> >>>> What does this model predict in terms of future optical quality? >>>> >>>> >>>> Steve >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Jayanand >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 6:13 PM, Nathan Wajsman <photo at >>>>> frozenlight.eu >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Right. So Leica has made a strategic shift from the photography >> business >>>>>> to the jewelry business. Fair enough, the Blackstone people obviously >>>> know >>>>>> where the money is. But then they should be up front about it so that >>>> the >>>>>> photography dealers can switch their focus to companies that actually >>>> are >>>>>> interested in supplying photographers. >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Nathan >>>>>> >>>>>> Nathan Wajsman >>>>>> Alicante, Spain >>>>>> http://www.frozenlight.eu >>>>>> http://www.greatpix.eu >>>>>> PICTURE OF THE WEEK: http://www.fotocycle.dk/paws >>>>>> Blog: http://nathansmusings.wordpress.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>> YNWA >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On May 25, 2013, at 2:28 PM, Joseph Yao wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Leica have been shipping sufficient quantities of the new M240. They >>>> may >>>>>>> not have been sending them to their 'traditional' markets where their >>>>>> profit >>>>>>> margins are lower. You will see plenty of M240 in, for example, >>>> Beijing >>>>>> and >>>>>>> Shanghai, where the going rate for one is US$12,000 to US$13,000. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A handful of limited production silver chrome MM have been made for >> the >>>>>>> Chinese market, and available at RMB 1,581,000 each, approx. >>>> US$258,280. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Joseph >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information