Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2013/06/27

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Subject: [Leica] AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!
From: mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner)
Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2013 13:47:22 -0400

http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/


On 6/26/13 4:23 PM, "Steve Barbour" <steve.barbour at gmail.com> wrote:

> 
> On Jun 26, 2013, at 11:55 AM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> 
> wrote:
> 
>> Why don't you Steve?
> 
> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/barbour/paw2013/?g2_page=5
> 
> and the preceding pages...(many leica, many other, you can not tell the
> difference)
> 
> You would know, if you had taken a look at some of my images, and those of
> many other photographers here.
> 
> So a chance for a look now.... me, I'm out.
> 
> No more, I'm on my way to make some pictures.
> 
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
>> On 6/26/13 2:34 PM, "Steve Barbour" <steve.barbour at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> hey Mark, why don't you hang it up and take some good pictures with what
>>> ever....
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Steve
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Jun 26, 2013, at 11:24 AM, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> "Good value" is a key term concerning this whole Leica deal.
>>>> A fact that since its inception there was always a cheaper way to take
>>>> pictures.  Always will be. Won't a Pentax Spotmatic still take very nice
>>>> pictures?
>>>> If it did and it cost half a Leica then its clearly to most people a 
>>>> better
>>>> value is it not?
>>>> Or a Nikon F used by the vast majority of pro's a while back. Why pay 
>>>> more
>>>> than what the pros are paying? Don't you need to be looking through the
>>>> lens?
>>>> But a few went for the Leica for the numerous reasons which gets
>>>> occasionally discussed here and other Leica lists.
>>>> 1. You get to NOT look through the lens.
>>>> 2. Premium build and glass.
>>>> 3. more compact basic size form.
>>>> 4. a bit more low key on the job
>>>> 
>>>> 5. looks nicer.
>>>> 6. feels nicer.
>>>> 8. a better investment of money.
>>>> 9. I forgot.
>>>> 10. _____ insert your own reason here.
>>>> 
>>>> As far as Leica goes it should got without saying there is always a 
>>>> cheaper
>>>> way out. And that gets called " good value". And that term was used by a
>>>> few
>>>> others in the past couple of days and in reviews of the New Vario X I 
>>>> just
>>>> read...."but is it a good value?" they guy said.
>>>> 
>>>> Any of my Leica lenses I got in the 90's and beyond I can sell for twice
>>>> what I laid out for them new.
>>>> Any Nikon lens I got was like driving out of a dealership with a new 
>>>> car.
>>>> A not small irretrievable loss had just occurred.
>>>> 
>>>> And every time I reached for my 35mm ASPH f2 Summicron M it didn't ask 
>>>> me
>>>> for another $1495.
>>>> It just made better images than any Nikon lens I had by far.
>>>> 16x20 and 20x24 inch prints made first in my darkroom and then on my 
>>>> Epson
>>>> in odd sizes made for no doubt.
>>>> And still I got to use the lens and it never once asked me for more 
>>>> cash.
>>>> The  $1495 was gone. I'd long forgotten what else I may have done with 
>>>> it.
>>>> 
>>>> Yes put me on the list please!
>>>> Check it twice.
>>>> 
>>>> I have faith that many more of us will be getting new Leica M's this 
>>>> year
>>>> and in the very near future. As plenty other people brand new to all 
>>>> things
>>>> Leica will be this year and in the very near future. And many of these
>>>> people will be doing some high profile work.
>>>> Soon you wont be able to get a decent table in a McDonalds without a 
>>>> Leica
>>>> M
>>>> in your side bag.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 6/26/13 2:14 AM, "Geoff Hopkinson" <hopsternew at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Mark, I doubt that anyone else on the list is as enthused with the new 
>>>>> M
>>>>> (or all of the M stuff I guess) as I am. I just got mine yesterday so 
>>>>> I'm
>>>>> barely starting to learn it.
>>>>> Of course they are also still in extremely short supply and they cost a
>>>>> lot. So was the M8 and the M9 initially. Actually mine cost me
>>>>> significantly less than my M9  (which is going to a good home on the
>>>>> list).
>>>>> I was just commenting that the Fuji cameras are very popular and seem 
>>>>> like
>>>>> good value, so much so here that no-one can sell you one in my city
>>>>> currently which is a little ironic. Do I need one and would I buy one, 
>>>>> no,
>>>>> for the very obvious reason that I'm lucky enough to have a great 
>>>>> camera
>>>>> with superb lenses to use.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'll put you on my group email list for stuff on the new camera if you
>>>>> like. There just aren't many owners here as yet, I think. Henning a 
>>>>> couple
>>>>> of others as I recall.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> *Family and friends are everything.*
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers
>>>>> Geoff
>>>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 26 June 2013 13:39, Mark Rabiner <mark at rabinergroup.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Well I hope my tone was clear I'm on your side for being the only one 
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> mention the Leica brand on the thread I think it was an M240 you
>>>>>> recommended.
>>>>>> I was a bit put off by the unanimous consensus to get the Fuji system
>>>>>> camera
>>>>>> on the LUG today. Leica has moved far beyond this now. Cropped 
>>>>>> systems.
>>>>>> The fuji is a half assed compromise.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I don't feel if that's what your now saying that the fact that the 
>>>>>> Fuji
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> sold out that that makes it an item of interest for a list of supposed
>>>>>> Leica
>>>>>> lovers. It just means they made a camera marketed at the masses and is
>>>>>> succeeding on that account.
>>>>>> As far as APS-2 1.5x compacts go I'm ok with the ones with non
>>>>>> interchangeable lenes. The idea of using my set of Leica glass on a
>>>>>> cropped
>>>>>> format with odd balance and limited compatibility does not excite me. 
>>>>>> But
>>>>>> quite puts me off.
>>>>>> The APS-C format is fine for me on a camera which goes into a pants
>>>>>> pocket.
>>>>>> I'd even go the Vario X route though it would need a coat pocket.
>>>>>> The compact glass on the Leica X2 or Vario are made for that format.
>>>>>> As are some other ones.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Fujifilm X100s $1,299 1.5 crop
>>>>>> Leica X2 $1,995  1.5 crop
>>>>>> Nikon Coolpix A $1,097  1.5 crop
>>>>>> Ricoh GR $797  1.5 crop
>>>>>> Sigma DP1, 2 or 3. $999 with a sensor closer to 2x crop.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But the camera to get of course is the Sony RX1 full frame.
>>>>>> If I was not shooting with an M240 that would be my camera of choice.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm afraid at this point I have no patience for an M9 and the money 
>>>>>> I'd
>>>>>> have
>>>>>> to pay for one. I see it as a failed camera. A nice try, but no cigar.
>>>>>> The fact that its no longer made speaks for itself.
>>>>>> It was strike two.
>>>>>> And strike three is not going to happen for the new digital Leica 
>>>>>> company
>>>>>> because the Leica M240 and Monochrom are huge winners taking the 
>>>>>> company
>>>>>> up
>>>>>> to a higher level which I'm excited about. One in which far more 
>>>>>> serious
>>>>>> users are using rangefinder Leica gear.
>>>>>> And the S Too.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm not excited about people on the Leica list talking about a cropped
>>>>>> fuji
>>>>>> as if its a replacement for a full frame M. which it clearly isn't.
>>>>>> I'd expect to hear such garbage on the fuji list if there is one.
>>>>>> Or a bunch of computer geeks talking gadgets du jour.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 6/25/13 6:39 PM, "Geoff Hopkinson" <hopsternew at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Mark I could be considered biased here ;-)
>>>>>>> However just suggesting what may work best for Ric whose apparently 
>>>>>>> now
>>>>>>> facing a large repair bill for a previously repaired M8.  Personally 
>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> would be very frustrated in his position and very reluctant to spend
>>>>>>> more
>>>>>>> on the M8. I would maybe also be elevating my protest if the repair
>>>>>> agency
>>>>>>> has said no to a warranty claim. Everyone's circumstance is different
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> their own of course. My understanding of that shutter problem was 
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> slower max speed ones ought to be better. The shutter unit is in any
>>>>>> case a
>>>>>>> standard Copal unit that has been in many many camera for years
>>>>>> including I
>>>>>>> think R cameras and the M9 too. I know nothing on any MTBF histories
>>>>>> though.
>>>>>>> For what it's worth the excellent Fuji cameras are back ordered
>>>>>> everywhere
>>>>>>> here as well... But you can pick up almost any M lens or a Monochrom 
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>> an
>>>>>>> M-E or an X anything or even a Dlux jeans edition right off a shelf. 
>>>>>>> You
>>>>>>> would wait longer for an M though...but my wait is over ;-)
>>>>>>> On Jun 26, 2013 7:28 AM, "Mark Rabiner" <mark at rabinergroup.com> 
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Geoff you seem to be suggesting that someone on the LUG go out and 
>>>>>>>> buy
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> Leica camera. I can't even belive what I am reading. You are way off
>>>>>> topic.
>>>>>>>> This is the Fuji only zone.
>>>>>>>> Here today gone tomorrow cameras only.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 6/25/13 5:16 PM, "Geoff Hopkinson" <hopsternew at gmail.com> 
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I can only speak about the international warranty Ric where that is
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> case. I don't know the circumstances of the failure you got nor 
>>>>>>>>> what
>>>>>> was
>>>>>>>>> done of course. A camera that goes to Solms at least is assessed
>>>>>>>> completely
>>>>>>>>> when any paid service is performed and any additional work would be
>>>>>>>> quoted
>>>>>>>>> and everything adjusted to spec and guaranteed. For the M9 at 
>>>>>>>>> least at
>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>>> point you could buy an additional warranty period too.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> *Family and friends are everything.*
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>> Geoff
>>>>>>>>> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 25 June 2013 21:32, RicCarter <ric at cartersxrd.net> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> would that were true--my other M8 died less than a year after 
>>>>>>>>>> Leica
>>>>>> CLA.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> They refused to talk about repaair because they said they had not
>>>>>>>> replaced
>>>>>>>>>> the shutter.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> ric
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On Jun 25, 2013, at 5:27 AM, Geoff Hopkinson <hopsternew at 
>>>>>>>>>> gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Pay for a CLA and then get twelve months warranty on the whole
>>>>>>>>>>> camera
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more 
>>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more 
>>>>>>>>> information
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>>>>>>> Photography
>>>>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>>>>> Photography
>>>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>>> Photography
>>>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Mark William Rabiner
>> Photography
>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information




-- 
Mark William Rabiner
Photography
http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/lugalrabs/




Replies: Reply from leica_r8 at hotmail.com (Aram Langhans) ([Leica] AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH!!!)
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