Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 1996/07/29

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To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: Re: Leitz/Minolta CL: Question
From: Eric Welch <ewelch@cdsnet.net>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 1996 15:36:52 -0700

At 09:22 PM 7/28/96 -0700, you wrote:
>
>Leica doesn't lie?  Right Eric, and there really is a Easter Bunny.  Most
of the time it 
>amounts to corporate bungling, but the net effect is the same.     What
about their  
>repair service...that's been the subject of recent discussions here.  What
about the 
>cameras labled R3 MOT which were not?   Leica backed down in a lawsuit and
starting 

I've had years of experience with Leica service, and been very happy with
it. Seems to me this is pretty much standard across the board. All of the
horror stories I hear from my professional collegues about Nikon's NPS and
Canon's CPS cause me to think that problems like you mention are
industry-wide, and not unique to Leica. Some people will gripe if you hang
'em with a new rope.

Let's have some documentation here. What gives you the idea they are not
motor driven? I owned an R3, and I've played with many R3mots. Never saw a
signle Mot that wasn't motor (winder) driven. You have evidence this is true?

Picking at nits here. When the R4mot came out, (which I think is your
mistaken situation here, it was the R4 and not the R3, and it wasn't a law
suit, but customer confusion) it had electronics, built by a British company
who knew their chips were defective and failed to tell Leica. Did you know
for several years, Leica ripped the guts out of the old cameras and replaced
them free of charge? I missed the deadline by two years with an old used
R4mot I bought once. It's sittng on my shelf now, a pretty decent paper
weight. I am hard on cameras. The R4 line isn't up to professional use like
the R7 and R6 are, but they were decent camera.

>What about the design flawed R4 which was 
>advertised as the best 35 SLR?  The early ones can give trouble at any time
and cannot 

I have yet to ever see Leica make claims for their cameras that aren't true.
For you, and most people, maybe they aren't the best in the world, but it's
hardly illegal for a manufacturer to experss their opinon theirs is the
best. That's not a lie, it's opinion. 
And what other manufacturer will EVER tell you that a lens has vignetting
wide open when shooting evenly lit subjects like walls, or sky? None, but
Leica and maybe Contax, at least Blake Ziegler will. And who will tell you
that when you shoot near minimun distances that performance isn't top notch
and you need to stop down to middle apertures, other than Leica that is?
Leica may have a very high opinion of their equipment, but they are very
honest about the limitations of it, too.

>their first priority is making a buck.  They can make mistakes and attempt
to cover them 
>up just like any other company.  

You offer no evidence of cover up I find compelling. I'm sure it's probably
true, though, that they are reluctant to fix cameras that seem to be
working, or the customer would be complaining. If you don't ask, they might
not do it, but I know several people who had the replacement done and they
didn't even ask for it.

>> Well Eric, perhaps you don't understand that a shortening of effective RF
baselength 
>doesn't always lead to a perceptible difference in focusing accuracy.
Take for 

Well, I understand very clearly, you were the one who is surprised, here.

>accurate,  but that the difference in accuracy would show up in a real
world test over a 
>lens range as short as 28 mm and 40 mm.  

You never described your real-world test. How did you test the accuracy. By
repeatability? On film? But I see your point. If the baseline difference
isn't that much, and there is a major difference in focusing accuracy, maybe
it's mechanical, rather than optical based on the baseline? 

>> >By the way,  the  Minolta lenses for the CLE are multi-coated.
>> 
>> Most lenses from that era are.
>
>Right Erich,  most of them except the Leica M.  The point is that the CLE
lenses are 
>multi-coated, while the CL lenses are not.  The other point is that Minolta
did not 

Leica pioneered many multicoating techniques (Carl Zeiss did it first). Or
are you referring the Leica's practice of not multicoating every single lens
element. In that case, Leica's technique is clearly superior, because it
matches the coating to the lens, not slavishly coating every lens element
the same way. Multicoating can have a negative effect if done that way.
Nikon does it Leica's style, and Chuck Westfall at Canon tells me they do it
too. So multicoating is highly overrated if not done properly, which means
some elements have one layer, or none.
===================
Eric Welch
Grants Pass (OR) Daily Courier
NPPA Region 11 JIB chair
"I think not," said Descartes, and disappeared.


Replies: Reply from Cameras <Cameras@ix.netcom.com> (Re: Leitz/Minolta CL: Question)