Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 1998/11/10

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Subject: [Leica] collectors and used Leica rareness.....
From: "BIRKEY, DUANE" <dbirkey@hcjb.org.ec>
Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 9:22:06 -0500

B.D. Colen wrote.....

>Since Marc is invariably right about things of this sort...Doesn't that 
mean
>that given the limited number of Leicas made - compared to Ns or Cs - 
every
>camera that is collected does indeed depress the overall stock and drive 
up
>prices. For instance, while M4-2s may have no value as collectibles, the
>fact that a goodly number of M2s, M3s and some M4s - to say nothing of 
M5s,
>may be, reduces the overall number of all Ms in circulation and drives 
up
>the price of cameras like the M4-2.

While in theory the above is true....I suspect that the major influence 
is due to users.... I base that somewhat on the following

In the issue of Shutterbug that I surveyed...

The M4-2 was the rarest of the M models I counted...  out of the 336 M 
cameras I found, there were over 100 M-3's, M-4's came in second, M-2's 
third, M-6's a close 4th, M-5's 5th, M4-P's  slightly edging out the 
M-4-2's last with around 15 or so of each.   Several of the M4-2's were 
the Chrome versions with collector prices.   If someone wants the 
specifics I can find the tally sheet. There are more M cameras out there 
among the Shutterbug  dealers as several don't list all of the cameras 
they have in stock. 

Except for the M-5,  the user cameras M-6, M4-P and M4-2 are far harder 
to find than the collectible ones. That suggests that users are driving 
the market not collectors.  I would propose that prices for mint M-3's, 
M-2's and M-4's will keep going up as it is harder for collectors and 
dealers to find truly mint cameras.  Less than mint  models tend to get 
ratcheted up as well since prices tend to have a somewhat relational 
basis. 

Marc wrote.

> Bunk.  I doubt if 5% of collectors EVER sell.  You are confusing
> collectors
> with dealers and with buy-and-sell types.

I'm wouldn't know the percentage of collectors that ever sell 
equipment...... but judging from the LHSA catalog I would have to suspect 
that it's a lot higher than 5%.   I was referring to those who purchase 
things with intent to sell when said items aren't of the quality level 
for the collection but too cheap to pass up and could be traded or sold 
to get something of value.  I have a small collection (70-100) of cameras 
in storage (no Leicas sorry) and it's pretty hard for me to sell anything 
from it...... because I know I'll never be able to find items of near 
mint condition for the prices I paid.  So I can relate to what Marc 
stated.  On the other hand I don't buy duplicates of anything unless it's 
really a super bargain because that takes money away from other purchases 
. 

I guess it must be that every collector I've bought from or talked to 
must be the buy-sell type, so my personal experience may not be entirely 
correct..

Duane Birkey

HCJB World Radio
Quito Ecuador