[Leica] Civil conversation on this list (was Eggleston)

[timswan <timswan@blazenetme.net>]

It's been interesting to watch the Eggleston thread go from an 
interesting exchange to a flame war because of how people are saying 
things rather than what is being said. On the one hand we have people who 
don't like Eggleston's work and feel free to express it in a very clear 
way; on the other hand we have people who admire his work and who also 
aren't afraid to say it.

The point where a conversation takes a bad turn seems to be when people 
begin to deride other peoples position, rather than explaing their own. 
There are some who are defending such language as just "saying it like it 
is" and not being "Politically Correct." 

I couldn't disagree more.

We are exchanging ideas in a PUBLIC space, and there are well accepted 
ways of how to speak. When I am ONLY with my friends, people who I know 
well, I can feel free to express whatever opinion I have in whatever 
language I choose. If one of my friends does something dumb I can call 
them an a**hole and, because we know each other well, it will be allowed. 
If on the other hand, I'm walking down the street and a stranger knocks 
into me and I call him the same, I fully expect to be punched in the 
mouth. 

I know that people begin to feel as though they know the people on this 
list, and many of you do, but you need to remember that for every one 
person that you know personally, there are likely hundreds of others that 
you don't. I think that you should speak as though you were talking to 
them.

Some people will no doubt accuse me of trying to limit what people say, 
but I'm not. All I'm saying is that you need to stand with your words and 
if you cross the line you should be prepared for the verbal consequences. 
You can still say anything you want --  but you just might want to 
consider how it will sound to others.

Example one: The guy can't take a picture to save his life, he's a 
schmuck and anyone who likes his work is dumb and blind.

Example two: I haven't liked any of the photos of his, and I don't see 
what other people like about him.

They both say the same thing, but one will justifiably start a flame war 
and the other has the possibility of either being dropped or starting a 
conversation.

For example, if someone said "Leicas suck -- they're based on outdated 
designs, cost way too much, and are ugly. I mean I can buy a Tamron lens 
that gets better ratings for a quarter the cost. Anyone who buys a Leica 
is less concerned with photography than status and is a moron", then I 
would hope that they would be ready to pay the verbal price.

There's no automatic badge of honor in saying what you feel however you 
choose -- racists, bigots, and demogogues do it all the time. Let's have 
some friendly, civil talk about Leica's and photography, which is what I 
believe we all came to this list for.

Tim Swan