Re: [Leica] leica "demos"

["Matt Morgan" <mattmorgan@pdseurope.co.uk>]

Rich,
Thanks for your response.
>>I also try to indicate in my advertisements, or certainly when I speak to the
> customer, which WARRANTY it comes with.<<
The `demo' I just bought came with a two year warranty, but I was motivated
to ask these questions simply because of the thread of "B grade' kit.
As I normally just walk in, make a decision, pay the rate and walk out, I
just wanted to make sure I wasn't as dumb as I might seem:-)
I usually accept the old adage of "you make your choice, you pays your
money", but if using the description of `demo' hides things that I should
know about before making a decision, I need to make an assessment of the
risk v saving.
>> My advice to you, is that if you are losing sleep over it, don't get a demo.
> I am always surprised when a customer with a large income will agonise over a
> purchase to save as little as $150 on some items! If I were in their shoes
> (and I have been in those shoes as a photographer/collector many times before
> becoming a dealer.) I would buy the new gear, pay the extra money, and save
> my worry-pills for something that really mattered.<<

I'm not losing sleep, (actually, I have a five week old baby, so I am!), and
I don't know what yard-stick by which you measure incomes, but spending
8,000 GBP (US$12,000+) in the space of a few months on something that is now
only used pretty much as a weekend hobby is a sizeable enough amount for me
to explore a saving. I had no intention of buying `demo' at all, but when I
went into the store to buy a new 50mm summicron, I saw the `demo' lux and
thought with a decent saving, I may as well have that. Same with the 24mm,
but now I might just buy new.
I'm just in that frustrating period where I'm acquiring the gear I want, but
just want to have it and then accelerate out to just concentrate fully on
shooting. However, buying these lens in stages is really useful because I'm
getting to know them gradually.
The LUG's advice and experience is great in helping me make informed
decisions (thanks), rather than buying blind, but I'll shortly be switching
my focus from gear onto what it's supposed to be used for.
Much appreciated, Matt.


- ----------
>From: Photovilla@aol.com
>To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
>Subject: [Leica] leica "demos"
>Date: Fri, Aug 25, 2000, 7:08 am
>

> <<
>
> Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 07:23:04 -0800
>
> From: "Matt Morgan" <mattmorgan@pdseurope.co.uk>
>
> Subject: Re: [Leica] "B Grade" Leica gear????
>
> Message-ID: <200008250638.HAA28016@mail.enterprise.net>
>
> References:
>
>
> Rich,
>
> As I am just in the process of buying a "demo' lens, (from a reputable and
>
> known dealer) and want to make sure I'm not a mug, could you please enlarge
>
> on the term `demo'?
>
> If a lens is sold as a demo, should I expect it to have only been used in
>
> the same store for potential customers to just put it on a camera and look
>
> through it? What other use could it have had? Could it be a return?
>
> How much wear would a demo lens expect before it is then sold on?
>
> If it is demo, why would the store sell it, instead of keeping it for quite
>
> a period of time, or are demo's supposed to be constantly renewed?
>
> What are the signs I should look for and check when buying?
>
> Lastly, what is an average discount from the dealer's selling price (not
>
> full-list price) that should be expected for a demo?
>
> Apologies for so many questions, but as I'm spending a lot of money in a
>
> very short time I'd like to save a chunk if I can trust `demo' gear.
>
> However, I'd always rather pay the full amount for new than risk buying
>
> inferior kit.
>
> Thanks, Matt.>>
>
> The problem with the word "demo" is that it can mean almost anything from
> store to store.
>
> I have started to differentiate a bit in my advertising between an "unused
> demo" which is probably just new goods at a discount and a "Mint- demo" which
> is a camera that has been used in one way or the next.
>
> I also try to indicate in my advertisements, or certainly when I speak to the
> customer, which WARRANTY it comes with. If it is unused with passport it is
> in all ways a New USA camera...however, if it is a Leica demo it may have a 1
> year or 90 day warranty...which is different.
>
> Could it be a return? That is again by dealer policy. Why don't you ask them.
> If it has blank warranty cards that certainly is a good sign...missing cards
> a bad sign... I don't call "used" gear a "demo"...I call it used, Mint, Exc+,
> whatever...but if it is preowned then it is not truly a demo in my eyes. I
> have noticed that a lot of people don't like the word "demo" anyway...so why
> bill it as such if it is not?
>
> What about "grey market" goods. Well, I see grey market items being sold as
> "Factory Samples" in Tamarkin's ads each month. What is a "factory sample?" I
> don't know, but I guess it is like when you get the broken cakes at the
> Enteman's factory store for 1/2 price! <ha> Since there are no US warranty
> cards with many of these items, I assume they are just grey market or
> possibly some code u demos?
>
> As to price, there is no hard and fast rule there. I imagine that some bigger
> dealers get a much better deal on demo gear and certainly more of
> it...because of this they may sell items cheaper.  I generally price demos at
> the same markup as new...which is not much.
>
> My advice to you, is that if you are losing sleep over it, don't get a demo.
> I am always surprised when a customer with a large income will agonize over a
> purchase to save as little as $150 on some items! If I were in their shoes
> (and I have been in those shoes as a photographer/collector many times before
> becoming a dealer.) I would buy the new gear, pay the extra money, and save
> my worry-pills for something that really mattered.
>
> My .02. ;-)
>
> Rich
>