Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2001/02/22

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Subject: [Leica] Re: Re: Delta 400 vs Tmax 400
From: Jim Brick <jim_brick@agilent.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 17:06:51 -0800
References: <4.1.20010222072054.05e36d50@xsj02.sjs.agilent.com>

At 11:41 PM 2/22/01 +0100, Julian Thomas wrote:
>> Want a good 400 film... Tri-X in Xtol 1:3 by hand, 1:1 in a JOBO. SHARP!
>>
> I use xtol 1:1, 24deg 8 mins for Trix. I see a lot of people using 1:3.
>What differences would I see if I dev 1:3 - are people doing this for
>economy only?
>
>Julian

There is no economy in using Xtol 1:3. It takes the same amount of raw
developer per roll (100ml per 135/36 roll) regardless of the dilution. Mark
Rabiner compensates by extending the time.

I have always used 1:3 in Stainless Steel hand tanks and I currently use
1:1 in my JOBO. But I will also use 1:3 in the JOBO, I just haven't taken
the time yet to do the appropriate tests.

1:3 gives a little more edge effect than 1:1, and a little more grain which
makes the result look sharper. But in reality, the difference is easily
missed. You have to know what you are looking at.

If you have a 1000ml tank which holds four rolls of 35mm film. Mix Xtol
1:3. In 1000ml of 1:3 Xtol, you have 250ml of raw developer. This will
properly develop 2.5 rolls of film. I put three rolls in plus an empty
reel. In a 500ml tank, I put in one roll and an empty reel. In an eight
roll tank (2000ml) I put in six rolls plus two empty reels. This is fudging
a little bit.

Mark doesn't. He fills them up with film and extends the time. And it is
useless to ask people what their development times are for these kinds of
situations. This is at the edge of Xtol's capabilities and the square
inches of emulsion vs milliliters of raw developer will make a big
difference. If you have a time that works for four rolls in 1000ml of 1:3
Xtol, this time will not work if you only put in only three rolls. You are
working at the exhaustion point of the developer for the last 25-50% of the
development time, bromide is at it's highest concentration, and a fine line
is walked to get consistent results. Change anything in the equation and
you get something you did not expect. Either very thin, or very heavy
negatives.

This is why personal testing, trial and error, lots of mistakes, will
eventually give you your own "formula". Not necessarily suitable for anyone
else.

My JOBO can deliver 1000ml so I need to experiment for development times
for 1:3 dilution and four 135/36 or two 220 (four 120) rolls.

Kodak used to publish data for 1:2 and 1:3 dilutions but because people
didn't read the fine print (100ml per roll) they were getting
underdeveloped film. And complained. So Kodak said screw it... we'll pull
support for higher dilutions.

Jim

NO UV

Replies: Reply from Jim Brick <jim@brick.org> ([Leica] RE: Xtol)
Reply from "Julian Thomas" <julianthomas@terra.es> (Re: [Leica] Re: Re: Delta 400 vs Tmax 400)
In reply to: Message from Jim Brick <jim_brick@agilent.com> ([Leica] Re: Delta 400 vs Tmax 400)