Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2001/03/11

[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]

Subject: [Leica] Dan Post and Legal History
From: Marc James Small <msmall@roanoke.infi.net>
Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 19:50:31 -0500
References: <09ee01c0a98e$110a1ee0$d8f86420@computer>

At 03:41 PM 3/10/2001 -0500, Dan Post wrote:
>Here in North Carolina, the criminal statutes are codified so that to
>qualify as an offence, certain 'elements' of the crime must exist.
>

Dan

It is the exact opposite in yours and all other Common Law jurisdictions.
There are "common law" crimes which require no statues to remain crimes --
murder, manslaughter, rape, arson, mayhem, assault,  treason, larceny,
robbery, trespass, and other crimes exist independent of statutes.  The
requirement for "elements" to be proven goes back a LONG way, at least to
the early 1200's, as a counter-balance to the vagueries of defending
oneself from one of these "common law" crimes.

Things are a bit different in Civil Law jurisdictions, as these rely,
ultimately, on the Roman commentators and on the Theodosian, Justinian,
Gothic, Canon Law, and Napoleonic Codes.  (In graduate school, I was doing
some research for Ramsey MacMullen on the Theodosian Code -- and noticed
that the volume I was using had belonged previously to Michael Roztessefsky
- -- so, I was studying under the outstanding scholar of Late Roman Imperial
affairs in the 1970's, using a book once owned by the outstanding scholar
of Late Roman Imperial affairs from the World War I era.  Fair gave me the
shakes, it did!)  In the US, the only Civil Law jurisdiction is Louisiana,
though shards of it survive in New Mexico.  And California is producing its
OWN legal code which is intended, at some point, to replace common law,
though I doubt that it ever will.

In both criminal and civil actions, these common-law charges commenced with
a pat recitation of the matter.  As late as the 1950's, these were required
memorization in most US law schools and, even when I went through in the
1970's, we still had to use them constantly.  "Goods Had and Delivered" or
"the lifting and taking away of the goods of another with the intent to
deprive the owner of the possession of such goods permanently".  These
"common law counts" are handy, as, in both Federal and State courts, all
legal interpretation begins here whenever possible.

As a Classicist, I really DO have a deep-seated belief that they really DID
do things better in the old days.  Hence, I can with great relief report
that there are no "common law counts" covering the Environmental Pollution
Agency nor the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, though the actions
agency such as this could have been brought in earlier ages by "common law
counts".

Marc

msmall@roanoke.infi.net  FAX:  +540/343-7315
Cha robh bas fir gun ghras fir!

In reply to: Message from "Anders Nygren" <anygren@attglobal.net> (RE: [Leica] Zoom Saga)