Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2002/02/01
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]Craig Semetko wrote and asked: >>My point is, is the LIGHTING good? I'm trying to get better at formal > lighting as well and I'm wondering if lighting is causing any of the > justified distaste for these shots. Or is it just hair, clothes, retouched > color and forced smiles that are doing it? I'm trying to learn here.<<< Hi Craig, I don't have a problem with the lighting examples, as it's as an excellent teaching tool in how to see what kind of light looks good to your eye, then that's the kind of light effect you watch for when shooting by available existing light. It has nothing to do with posing, it's just a better understanding of how light works and looks in the day to day real world. I keep telling folks and teaching, "shooting from the shadow side," actually quite simple really. There are several solid examples in the subjects shown here. And that has nothing to do with how the subjects look in these pictures, as I'm talking about light not the posing, colour etc. It's like when I say, "shoot from the shadowside," I call it "Rembrandt lighting," Joe refers to it as "45 degree" light. Same thing. The examples in chapter #1; photos #4 & 11 illustrate this effect. Particularly picture #18. As far as I'm concerned it's solid examples of what light looks like whether set-up or not. Looking at it one can learn where to stand and shoot from when they see the same kind of light happening on a subject. And if these portraits were shot in B&W I don't believe we'd see the anti portrait comments we have today, simply because the god awful colour wouldn't be present and people would be looking at the "light and content only!" After all, some times we all get in a twist and forget these are the pictures of the day, sorry yesterday, and they reflect the style of those times. They were very effective and people clamored to have their portraits taken in the studio, which eventually became the outdoor studio of today for a more relaxed look to everyone. Even today many of the "outdoor studio" portraits look contrived. So to answer your question about light, I'd print out the "lighting chapters" if only to look at hard copy and see what you like and maybe even try it with just window light and some family as models or friends. Learn by doing and seeing your effects, so that when the crunch comes and you have to produce, you'll know exactly what to look for. Shoot from the Shadowside! ;-) ted Ted Grant Photography Limited www.islandnet.com/~tedgrant - ----- Original Message ----- From: "" <csemetko@earthlink.net> To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 3:51 PM Subject: [Leica] winter in GA > Okay, I agree entirely that these shots all look heinous, but what exactly > TECHNICALLY makes them look so cheesy? If these were goth chicks of today > instead of middle Americans of the 60's and 70's, and if they were shot in > B&W, and they were more relaxed rather than posed, would we still feel this > way? > > Here's the link we're talking about: > > http://www.zuga.net/freelessons/JZCH1.shtml > > Craig > > > > The images looked pretty much like stock Olin Mills (is that his name?) or > > K-Mart portraits. I have always wondered why people have pictures taken of > > themselves looking like that, but it is almost an American ritual. My guess > > is that, if you looked at the top of the credenza in the office of most > > people working for IBM or the FBI, the family portraits would look like that. > > > > It's not art, but it sure seems to have a home in the USA. > > > > At 03:17 PM 2/1/02 -0500, you wrote: > >> Well, Ted, now that I've succeed in insulting yet another member of this > >> group.... > >> > >> There's nothing wrong with wanting to learn the basics. But I would contend > >> that while the work displayed may be what was popular in the hinterlands in > >> the 40s 50s and into the 60s does not make it "basic," and it certainly does > >> not make it good. Karsh was shooting at the same, and I would suggest that > >> if someone want to learn something about the "basics" of posed, formal, > >> portrait photography they would be much better off spending some time in the > >> library studying some of his work than they would looking that the Zeltsman > >> stuff. The Zeltsman approach seems to produce photographs of stuffed, posed, > >> dead people colored in ways which nature never intended. The fact that > >> zillions of "portrait photographers" made lots of money peddling this stuff > >> doesn't mean a thing - lots of convenience store owners make lots of money > >> selling passport photos of people - that doesn't make them portrait > >> photographers. Hell, it doesn't even make them photographers. > >> > >> Sorry, but we sure disagree on this one. > >> > >> B. D. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us > >> [mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us]On Behalf Of Ted Bayer > >> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 3:09 PM > >> To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us > >> Subject: Re: [Leica] Re: Winter in GA > >> > >> > >> > >> I guess I am going to have to tie in here a little -- with no argument > >> with BD or anyone else. Just my .02 cents for what it's worth. > >> > >> Read the heading -- The Zeltsman Approach to Formal Classic > >> Portraiture -- speaks directly to what you are going to get from this > >> set of lessons. Formal and Classic. > >> > >> The gentleman who wrote this series is from the my era - the 40s, 50s, > >> 60s, and he is displaying a fine example of portraiture from that era. > >> In the 50s I worked in a studio doing this kind of work. We retouched > >> and colored all the portraits by hand. Let me say in passing that many > >> fine, award-winning photographers of that day made one hell of a lot of > >> money from this type of work. And today, with some modifications, many > >> still do. > >> > >> Now, what's wrong with a young man wanting to learn the basics of > >> posing, lighting, etc. He asked about portraits. That's what this is > >> about. Once he learns the basic, then he can alter what he is doing and > >> produce whatever he wants. > >> > >> That's it. > >> > >> Ted in Olalla > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net> > >> To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us> > >> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 11:13 AM > >> Subject: RE: [Leica] Re: Winter in GA > >> > >> > >>> Posed? Noooooooo. That couple with the boots and whips always sits > >> around > >>> that way with a saddle at their feet. And the little girl with the > >> dog? > >>> Think her arm is wired around that beast? ;-) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us > >>> [mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us]On Behalf Of Douglas > >> Lee > >>> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 1:47 PM > >>> To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us > >>> Subject: RE: [Leica] Re: Winter in GA > >>> > >>> > >>> Well, to each his/her own. However, I must say I found > >>> it amusing that after you page through all the > >>> obviously posed portraits the photographer points out > >>> that the portraits do not have that "manipulated pose" > >>> look. Even to my challenged "eye" they are posed... > >>> > >>> Cafe mocha anyone? > >>> > >>> -Doug Lee > >>> > >>> > >>> --- "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net> wrote: > >>>> Eric, my friend. Hang your head in shame. Go lock > >>>> yourself in your room for > >>>> six hours. Go to bed without supper. How could you > >>>> possibly, ever, point > >>>> anyone to this site. This is THE UGIEST, MOST > >>>> HORRIFYING, REVOLTING crap > >>>> that ever crept into the front window of a 9th rate > >>>> "portrait studio"/Kodak > >>>> store in the smallest of small town America. :-( :-( > >>>> > >>>> Give me a Holga shot taken by a blindman on acid > >>>> over this crap!!! > >>>> > >>>> B. D. > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us > >>>> [mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us]On > >>>> Behalf Of Eric > >>>> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 10:50 AM > >>>> To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us > >>>> Subject: [Leica] Re: Winter in GA > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> David: > >>>> > >>>>> The third and fourth, I am looking for some advice > >>>> for simple portraits. > >>>> > >>>> http://www.zuga.net/freelessons/JZCH1.shtml > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Eric > >>>> -- > >>>> To unsubscribe, see > >>>> http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> To unsubscribe, see > > -- > To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html > - -- To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html