Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2002/10/09

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Subject: Re: [Leica] OT - Traveling to Canada from US...
From: "Rob Appleby" <rob@robertappleby.com>
Date: Wed, 9 Oct 2002 20:46:47 +0200
References: <84DC3390-DBB1-11D6-A1F5-0003938E84DA@laurelgroup.com>

"insane quasi-religious belief in martyrdom..."

What is this, a competition to see who's more ignorant?

- -- Rob

http://www.robertappleby.com
Mobile: (+39) 348 336 7990
Home: (+39) 059 303436

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Cahill" <mcahill@laurelgroup.com>
To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Leica] OT - Traveling to Canada from US...


> While there are the Timothy McVeigh's out there, I think our problem
> really comes from Arabic/Farsi speaking dark skinned Muslims, US
> citizens or not. You might find it difficult to recruit native (as in
> those who were born here) Americans willing to commit suicide by
> destroying the World Trade Center by flying a jet into them.  Even
> McVeigh didn't commit suicide. This type of insane quasi-religious
> belief in martyrdom is certainly not a Western idea. Without it 9/11
> wouldn't have happened. At this point the enemy is pretty obvious.
> Screen those who fit the profile.
>
> We have had the same debate here in NJ over racial profiling. A
> disproportionate number of blacks have been stopped for traffic
> violations.  Has anyone even investigated the % of crime committed as
> compared to their numbers in the population?  You'll find the reason for
> the profile in those numbers. But we can't say that, even if it is the
> truth,  Who wants to be labeled as a "racist"?
>
> Lastly, I submit to you that the single most profiled group of
> individuals in the US aren't black, Latino, female, Asian or any other
> ethnic group.  They are young white males (17-25) particularly when
> traveling in groups.
>
> MC
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 12:52 PM, Rob Appleby wrote:
>
> > Isn't it evident that it has nothing to do with PC and everything to do
> > with
> > good security procedures? If you systematically exclude a social group
> > from
> > your inspections, the bad guys will simply recruit people in the
> > excluded
> > groups and send them to blow up your planes and cities (assuming the
> > threats
> > are at all believable - with the exception of 911). The checks have to
> > be
> > random and spread equally over the entire population to be effective.
> >
> > You don't have to be Ossama bin Einstein to figure that one out.
> >
> > -- Rob
> >
> > http://www.robertappleby.com
> > Mobile: (+39) 348 336 7990
> > Home: (+39) 059 303436
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Michael Cahill" <mcahill@laurelgroup.com>
> > To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 6:23 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Leica] OT - Traveling to Canada from US...
> >
> >
> >> Here, Here!
> >>
> >> On Wednesday, October 9, 2002, at 10:11 AM, Don R. wrote:
> >>
> >>> Ah, yes.  But you see, with PC (PC=Political Correctness)
> >>> running rampant government officials must roust everyone, not just
> >>> those who
> >>> fit the terrorist profile. Thus 90 year old, Anglo-Saxon grandmothers
> >>> are
> >>> hassled by airport security so the officers will not be scolded for
> >>> "racial
> >>> profiling."
> >>>
> >>> In today's America, no one can use common sense.  We have become
> >>> dumber
> >>> than
> >>> the most stupid African plains animal.  The Wildebeest steers clear of
> >>> the
> >>> drinking hole when the lions are having a sip. But in America, those
> >>> whose
> >>> job it is to protect the public safety are prohibited from using
> >>> common
> >>> sense that would suggest more attention be paid to an unruly mid-east
> >>> passenger speaking Farsi than the  90 year old white, Anglo-Saxon
> >>> grandmother.
> >>>
> >>> Until we kick this "liberal" mindset, this type of nonsense will
> >>> continue
> >>> because it has become the norm.
> >>>
> >>> Don R.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>  ----- Original Message -----
> >>> From: "Michael Cahill" <mcahill@laurelgroup.com>
> >>> To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 8:12 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Leica] OT - Traveling to Canada from US...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> We were courteous and very understanding, didn't have much of a
> >>>> choice.
> >>>> I think if I was anything but courteous they would have forced me to
> >>>> unload the entire car. The Canadian agents were very polite and
> >>>> efficient.  I found the U.S. agents were similar to what I've
> >>>> encountered with police in small towns in southern New Jersey; a bit
> >>>> too
> >>>> Rambo-esque toward toward the least dangerous members of society.
> >>>> Last
> >>>> time I checked middle-aged couples from suburban Philadelphia haven't
> >>>> posed much of a security risk.  This is the same kind of treatment
> >>>> we've
> >>>> encountered at airports recently.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tuesday, October 8, 2002, at 06:53 PM, Dave Richards wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On numerous trips back and forth I have always found the law
> >>>>> enforcement people
> >>>>> on both sides of the border efficient and polite.  They have a
> >>>>> dirty,
> >>>>> dangerous,
> >>>>> generally thankless job and usually do it well in the face of
> >>>>> rudeness
> >>>>> and arrogance.
> >>>>> I have found that courtesy and a little understanding works pretty
> >>>>> well.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dave Richards
> >>>>> Centennial, Colorado
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> was in Eastern Canada in August.  Had passports, weren't needed.
> >>>>>> Two
> >>>>>> forms of ID were sufficient.  Coming back through to the States we
> >>>>>> were
> >>>>>> accosted by the Border Patrol.  Certain bags in the car were
> >>>>>> searched,
> >>>>>> questions asked and we were generally made to feel uncomfortable,
> >>>>>> something these guys are really good at.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-
> >>>>> users/unsub.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
>
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> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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> >>
> >
> >
> > --
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> >
>
>
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>


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In reply to: Message from Michael Cahill <mcahill@laurelgroup.com> (Re: [Leica] OT - Traveling to Canada from US...)