Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2002/11/14

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Subject: Re: [Leica] OT Neopan 1600 developers
From: Rolfe Tessem <rolfe@ldp.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 14:15:59 -0500
References: <A01060006-1022-AA29A935F7ED11D68B22003065C7DF66@[10.0.1.2]>

- --On Thursday, November 14, 2002 8:25 AM -0800 Adam Bridge 
<abridge@mac.com> wrote:

> On 11/14/02 Nathan Wajsman  wrote:
>
>>
>> Actually, I do not think the negatives are underdeveloped. On the
>> contrary, they may be slightly overdeveloped, since as you mention, they
>> are properly exposed (there is shadow detail where I want it) but the
>> highlights are too dense. I used the 13.5 minutes someone mentioned as a
>> starting point but reduced is to 13 minutes since I use a Jobo. Next
>> time I will try even less time, 12.5 or even 12 minutes. In general, I
>> find that I need to reduce the times given in the film data sheets to
>> compensate for the continuous agitation. For example, my time for Delta
>> 100 is 15 minutes, and for Fuji Acros 13.5 to 14 minutes, both in XTOL
>> 1+3 at 20C. Both of these times are shorter than what the data sheets
>> suggest.
>>
>
> Are you using a pre-soak? I note that the JOBO site says their times were
> derived without a pre-soak, but someone, I think on here, said they
> always use a pre-soak because it helps buffer the effects of the
> continuous agitation.

There is some confusion about whether presoak is "recommended" when using 
Xtol in a Jobo. The confusion results because Jobo says on it's website 
that presoak is not recommended with this developer. What Jobo really means 
is not "required". The reason for this is that Kodak went to the trouble of 
testing Xtol in rotary processors without presoak and published the 
recommended times, which are generally about 15% less than the times 
published for small tanks with inversion agitation. Kodak had never done 
this for other developers, so Jobo developed the 5 minute presoak 
recommendation which brought processing times almost exactly into line with 
the times published for small tanks with intermittent inversion agitation.

So, it doesn't really matter. You can use no presoak and the shorter times 
that Kodak publishes for rotary processors or you can use a five minute 
presoak and the longer times published for inversion processing.

If, like me, you have one of the automatic Jobos such as the ATL-1000 or 
ATL-1500, you don't have a choice as there is no way to turn off the 5 
minute presoak when running B&W. So I use the longer times and get great 
results.

- --
Rolfe Tessem
Lucky Duck Productions, Inc.
rolfe@ldp.com
- --
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In reply to: Message from Adam Bridge <abridge@mac.com> (Re: [Leica] OT Neopan 1600 developers)