Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2002/12/07

[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]

Subject: Re: [Leica] Is this believable?
From: "Roland Smith" <roland@dnai.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 22:51:22 -0800
References: <00af01c29d62$7e6884d0$0316fea9@ccasony01>

I find it rather interesting that government was a creation of the people to
serve it when individuals cannot serve themselves.   Civil protection is an
example.   A man was expected to protect his family and was equipped with
the legal requirement to do so.

In the nineteenth century, police departments were created in cities to fill
the need of civil protection which had become too large a problem for the
family to do so.
The police department was to be the server and the resident was the served.

In out society today, the server many times can apply the law in a manner in
which they become the served.  This is why we need organizations such as the
American Civil Liberties Union.

Examples:
Currently in my city, Oakland, California, three policemen are on trial and
a fourth is a fugitive for falsifying police reports and abusing citizens.
There are other complaints pending for other Oakland Police Officers for
similar problems.

In San Francisco, a vice chief's son is being publicized for abusing a bar
patron and a bar tender.  An earlier case of abuse by the same officer has
resulted in a civil suit while any criminal investigation of the officer's
behavior has been stone walled by the police administration.

Los Angeles Police have been blamed for abuse for more than a decade with
the scandal breaking in the Ramparts Division.   This is nothing new, I grew
up in the City of Los Angeles and police abuse was expected and tolerated.

Without our vigilance, the server becomes the served.

Roland Smith
Oakland, California


- ----- Original Message -----
From: "bdcolen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net>
To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 12:03 PM
Subject: RE: [Leica] Is this believable?


> Nope - Other than charge you with any damn thing he or she feels like
> charging you with, claiming that there is reason to believe you've done
> it... :-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> [mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us] On Behalf Of Austin
> Franklin
> Sent: Friday, December 06, 2002 2:15 PM
> To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> Subject: RE: [Leica] Is this believable?
>
>
> Hi Brian,
>
> > > You have to break a law to be under arrest, and being
> > > under arrest requires telling you why you are under arrest, as
> > well as the
> > > reading of your Miranda Rights...I believe.
> >
> > Hi Austin,
> >
> > The above is not correct. Technically you only need be suspected of a
> > crime to be arrested
>
> Yes, sorry...I knew that...I should have said "you need to be suspected
> of breaking the law, with some level of evidence" or something to that
> effect...
>
> > - whether or not you've committed a crime is a matter for a jury to
> > decide, not a police officer.
>
> Understood.
>
> > And, contrary to a great deal of
> > popular opinion, there is no requirement that you be given your
> > Miranda rights. The Miranda rights are required only if statements you
>
> > make in response to law enforcement questioning are going to be used
> > against you (and, even then, there are exceptions). You can be
> > arrested without being Mirandized.
>
> Of course, but nothing you say can be used against you ;-)
>
> But, back to the original point...can the officer do anything if you
> simply walk away, and there is no actual evidence of any crime etc.?
>
> Austin
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html
>
> --
> To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html


- --
To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html

In reply to: Message from "bdcolen" <bdcolen@earthlink.net> (RE: [Leica] Is this believable?)