Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2003/02/27

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Subject: Re: [Leica] OR photography and what can really happen
From: "animal" <s.jessurun95@chello.nl>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:27:25 +0100
References: <NDEIJCBGJPIEPDFEENCMOEDGCKAA.kitmc@acmefoto.com>

Kit
Well if your minimum speed is 300 feet a second that is not true.
And i would think that with an open Thorax you are in a hurry to.
Speed is life.
simon



- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Kit McChesney | acmefoto" <kitmc@acmefoto.com>
To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 6:59 PM
Subject: RE: [Leica] OR photography and what can really happen


> Simon--
>
> Well, I think that docs in the OR are under tremendous pressure to perform
> quickly (we can debate why all day long, but insurance companies probably
> have something to do with it given their push to drive down medical
> expenses) and to get people out of the hospital as fast as possible. There
> were reports that they had closed incisions leaving surgical instruments,
> other surgical equipment, waste from the surgery itself (materials used in
> the process) and other debris. Patients discovered that they had "stuff"
> inside their bodies later, after developing serious infections. The result
> of many preventable mistakes is often death. And then there are the cases
> where the wrong part of the body was subject to operation, etc, not to
> mention the amputation of the "wrong" limb. Ouch.
>
> I think the best procedure for minimizing mistakes is to slow down. Like
> anything else. Slower is better. Haste makes waste.
>
> Kit
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> [mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us]On Behalf Of animal
> Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 10:24 AM
> To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> Subject: Re: [Leica] OR photography and what can really happen
>
>
> I,d suspect that there are other  reasons for speed.
> There might be a limit how long surgery can last anyway.
> Everybody makes mistakes constantly.
> Even though results of mistakes vary.
> You can not blame people,s poor design.
> You just have to device procedures to minimize mistakes.
> It,s a very interesting complex subject human factors.
> The highest number of accidents occur in the home when people make tea.
> When distracted it,s very easy to boil two times the amount of water and
at
> the second to an allready full teapot which can result in horrible burns
for
> kids below the counter.
> While in the past research focused on aviation and the nuclear industries
> research has shown the complexity and is now focusing on the more common
> household accidents.
> simon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kit McChesney | acmefoto" <kitmc@acmefoto.com>
> To: <leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us>
> Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 5:59 PM
> Subject: RE: [Leica] OR photography and what can really happen
>
>
> > Edward--
> >
> > There was a recent report on NPR about how many times surgeons left
> > instruments and other debris INSIDE the patient prior to closing the
> > incisions. It was horrifying. Apparently they are under so much pressure
> to
> > perform quickly that they are making horrible mistakes. I'm also
thinking
> of
> > the transplant mistake last week. It probably will be tricky to obtain
> > permission to photograph in hospitals, but if you prepare the groundwork
> > sufficiently in advance, make friends with the docs you want to  work
> with,
> > really take the time to make yourself a known quantity to them, and to
> make
> > it clear that you aren't there to show their mistakes, but to show the
> human
> > side of the subject, you may have some luck.
> >
> > You're a veterinarian, yes? So you know how doctors feel already. Gosh,
> I'd
> > love to follow you around and document what you do!
> >
> > Kit
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> > [mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us]On Behalf Of Edward
> > Caliguri
> > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 9:23 AM
> > To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
> > Subject: [Leica] OR photography and what can really happen
> >
> >
> > Thanks Buzz, Tina-
> >     With my wife's help - I'm a health care professional as well
> (animals!)
> > - I might pull it off if I can find the time. The OR  - human or
> otherwise -
> > is a tough place to be admitted, with the freedom to listen and
> photograph.
> > I have heard some stories from my wife (even concerning world class
> > surgeons) that would curl nose hair - worse than the surgeon who left
his
> > Orthopedic patient open in the OR here in Boston just to make a an ATM
> > transaction --- you can bet that they are on their best behavior when
> > someone is watching, with a camera no less. In some ways, however, I
think
> > that the stories she tells from the NICU are more robust and sincere
> > (children bring out the best in these folks), with much fewer incidents
of
> > 'questionable' behavior from surgeons and surgical residents -- I hope!
> > Maybe BD and Ted have seen/heard these tales.
> >     Ed
> >
> > > Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:29:27 -0500
> > > From: "Buzz Hausner" <buzz.hausner@verizon.net>
> > > Subject: [Leica] OR/NICU Photographs
> > > Message-ID: <000001c2de10$721e0c10$121afea9@Hausner>
> > > References:
> > >
> > > Well...perhaps and perhaps not.  Ted and Sandy are photographing a
book
> > > on "Women In Medicine," capturing, as I understand it, women in all
> > > venues where medicine is practiced.  We'll have to wait for a report
> > > from Ted and Sandy whether or not they worked in a NICU (Neonatal
> > > Intensive Care Unit).  I am certain they will be photographing in the
OR
> > > because I know one of the surgeons who they will follow.
> > >
> > > Hospital administrators seem reluctant...stupidly...to permit
> > > documentary photography in intensive care units.  This may be from
> > > liability jitters, but who knows.
> > >
> > > Buzz Hausner
> >
> > --
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> >
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In reply to: Message from "Kit McChesney | acmefoto" <kitmc@acmefoto.com> (RE: [Leica] OR photography and what can really happen)