Re: [Leica] Buying & Selling Leica

[mak@teleport.com]

Why sould any of us care whether any one person buys and sells Leica for a profit or loss or dies with every camera they ever owned.

Mark Rabiner may not sell Leicas for a profit but he does sell images...Don Chatterton (Stan Tamarkin Stephen Gandy Jake Shivery etc etc etc) sell cameras, not images...

If you have Leicas to use (as do I) great. Use them, enjoy them. they are wonderful tools...

If you enjoy collecting Leicas (or wooden tools) great collect them, research them. Enjoy them.

Few smart sellers lose money on ebay...so what if it has leveled the playing field. it has also made it a HECK of a lot easier to find what we are all looking for whether to collect or to use.
In college I spent 6 months searching odd boxes for a XOONS lens hood for the soft and rather flare-prone 50mm f1.5...there are probably 10 XOONS hoods a month on ebay...

My 2 1/2 cents


Mark who uses Leicas daily and occasionally sells a collectible model to the collectors...



> 
> I would like to try every single Leica item to see how good it performs
just for entertaining myself.  It is sort of my hobby.  That means that I
have to buy one.  If I do not like it, I see it.  If I like it, I keep it. 

That is why I buy most of times and sell some times even if I lose.  I do
gain experience for the money that I lose by selling it right back for
less
money though.  Also, if I get one at a bargain, I can pass that to someone
else on this list when I sell it.  I get all the money that I spent while
that someone else get it at a bargain.  I don't see anything wrong with
buying and selling as someone pointed out somewhere.  I do use everything
that I have in my collection at least once or twice or more often.

Original Message:
- -----------------
From: Slobodan Dimitrov sld@earthlink.net
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 09:30:16 -0800
To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us
Subject: Re: [Leica] The new MP is out for auction


It's essentially taken out the middle man/person. It's what free trade
is all about. But remember, we practise Phoenician economics in the
West, i.e. if we can't sell anything to you, we'll sell you to your
neighbors.
Slobodan Dimitrov


Patrick Jelliffe wrote:
> 
> In the days before ebay, it was very difficult for a
> private individual to get a fair market price for used
> gear.  A good shop might offer you 60% of what they
> would sell your gear for.  Dealers advertising in
> Shutterbug were a little better, but not much. In '95,
> at a particularly low financial point, I  attempted to
> sell a Mint M3 in New York.  B&H offered me $450.
> Flyers posted at all the decent pro labs in Manhattan
> brought zero results.  Ended up shipping it to Jim
> Kuehl, who gave me $700.  It probably would have
> fetched a 1,200 or more from a collector somewhere.
> Ebay has brought a level playing field to buying and
> selling.  Is that so wrong?
> 
> Patrick
> 
> 
> --- Mark Rabiner <mark@rabinergroup.com> wrote:
> > "Beddoe, Neil" wrote:
> > >
> > > I find eBay an excellent alternative to hiring
> > gear.  Buy something, use it
> > > for a few months and then sell it for what you
> > paid for it.
> > >
> > > Neil
> > >
> >
> > I find the idea contemptuous.
> > I think people should buy a camera and take pictures
> > with it. Die with
> > it. That's the full cycle of the thing.
> >
> > It's not a baseball card.
> >
> > Pass it on to your grandchildren. I think that's
> > what a tool Like a
> > Leica M camera is all about.
> > It stays in your family for a few generations.
> >
> > I've got a nephew I've never met just signed up for
> > photography courses
> > at Columbia University in New York City.
> > I'm leaving him quite a few zero's worth of cameras
> > in my will.
> > The kids barely heard of me. For all I know they've
> > kept me a secret. I
> > hope he gives the Leicas a fair shot before he sells
> > them to buy more Nikons...
> > or a Chevy Bronco.
> >
> > Buy a camera, marry it. Get to know all it's
> > nuances.
> > These people who trade systems every year - ASK TO
> > SEE THEIR PRINTS!
> > Half the time they won't have any at all the other
> > half it will be a
> > stupid short stack of un-edited 4x6 machine prints.
> >
> > The sad fact i feel that most people don't realize
> > is that once people buy a camera; there's nothing
> > left to do but to take
> > pictures with it.
> >  The game is over. It's a tool. You bought it you
> > use it.
> > It's a shame when the thrill comes from the buying
> > and selling and not
> > the using.
> >
> > This buying and selling; buying and selling is not
> > photography.
> >
> > And as this list is called the Leica USER group. Not
> > Leica BUYER AND
> > SELLER Group, it's not what we are all about.
> >
> > But if we run out of money we just SELL SOMETHING ON
> > EBAY (almost as
> > much fun as buying) and that frees up more loot to
> > then BUY SOMETHING ON
> > EBAY. So we can keep it for a month and a half.
> >
> >
> > We had "Guilt" in a tread heading even though it was
> > mostly talking
> > about something else.
> >
> > The "Guilt" of buying an expensive camera like a
> > Leica and especially
> > Leica because it's low tech approach would
> > apparently not justify the expense.
> >
> > The me the "Guilt" comes from not using the camera.
> > Months later having
> > few prints to show for it or slides. I see guilt in
> > that.
> >
> > I cant see any "Guilt" coming from a camera one
> > carries around every day
> > -- at any price.
> >
> > But i do see "Guilt" from complaining about it to
> > give an excuse to
> > trade it in for a new toy a short time later.
> >
> > "I think the Canon lenses are better, I'm going
> > Canon"
> >
> > Me I don't enjoy buying stuff. Makes me very
> > nervous. I sweat blood when
> > ever i have to spend more than a grand on something.
> > Pink stuff rolls
> > down my forehead.  And I try to buy stuff as close
> > to home as possible
> > and from people (camera stores) which already know
> > me. ...a repeat
> > customer. That way if it DOES screw up I come back
> > there and slap it
> > down on the counter. And expect another one which
> > works on the spot.
> >
> > Don't suck us into auction threads folks!
> > Money money money. Greed, Avarice, dilettantism.
> >
> > We need to get back to owning what is ours. Taking
> > care of it properly.
> > And see what it really can do for us.
> >
> > As the Ebay mentality takes over more and more our
> > overall concept of
> > ownership completely fades. We never own anything.
> > We are just playing
> > auction games with it. Have we enjoyed using it as
> > much as we've enjoyed
> > buying and selling it?
> > But more importantly. Have we given the thing a fair
> > shot? I think the
> > people who designed and built it, marketed it and
> > sold it deserve at
> > least that.
> >
> >
> > Mark Rabiner
> > Portland, Oregon USA
> > <a target=_blank
href="http://www.rabinergroup.com">http://www.rabinergroup.com</a>
> > Email: mark@rabinergroup.com
> > Fax: 503-221-0308
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