Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2003/03/07
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]I am going to come back into this little pot I tipped over once, and then I'll retire from the field - First = I responded in haste and anger to the original post. It was foolish of me, but, as I said, as horrified as I am by current U.S. foreign policy; even though I think our current President is by far the worst President we have had in my life-time - and say that as a Nixon-hater from way back ;-); even though I am well aware of my countries internal and external failings, I am sick and tired of all the "fuck America" snotty remarks from Europeans. That said, I should have just kept my mouth shut. ;-) As to Johnny Deadman's response below: Yes, America - and the rest of the world, sat on its hands for far too long. The U.S. Congress, and indeed the populace, was dominated by isolationist sentiment, led, interestingly enough, by the philosophical/political forbearers of our current President and his inner circle. HOWEVER - were in not for FDR's lend-lease end-run, I and most historians believe Hitler, rather than Churchill, would have been the winner of the Battle of Britain - and there would have been no WWII for the U.S. to fight in. But I am not suggesting that America's role in WWII, nor, for that matter, our huge expenditure of resources protecting Europe for the 45 years of the Cold War, give us the right to expect anyone to ask "how high?" when the U.S. says jump - any more than the U.S. should automatically jump for France because the French saved us from Britain in the late 18th century, or because they gave use the Statue of Liberty. :-) B. D. - -----Original Message----- From: owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us [mailto:owner-leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us] On Behalf Of Jerry Lehrer Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 3:51 PM To: leica-users@mejac.palo-alto.ca.us Subject: Re: [Leica] BD's tilting at windmills WAS US Consumer Behavior Johnny Of course, before the war so many believed in Neville Chamberlain's doctrine of "Peace in our time". No one stood up to Hitler until they were attacked. Poland resisted and France and GB reluctantly entered the war only because they were linked by treaty to Poland. No other reason! Jerry Now we realize that an isolationist policy is wrong. Johnny Deadman wrote: > Gee, thanks, BD. And where exactly was the US in this conflict until > Dec 7 1941? > > Probably best not to try taking the moral high ground on this > particular issue, I think. > > Foreign policy is always driven by national interest, not morality or > ethics, although that is how it is always dressed up. Even though WWII > was as near to a just war as you will ever find, the British decision > to go to war was only taken when it became manifestly apparent that > Hitler's ambitions were continental if not global and that he wasn't > going to be negotiated out of them. > > It may be that in some moral and ethical frameworks (not mine, I > hasten to add) it is right for the US to go to war with Iraq shortly. > Even if that is so, it is quite irrelevant because I assure you that > is not the reason it is happening. Nor was it the reason the US went > to war in 1941. Realpolitik rules. > > To expect gratitude for acting in your own self-interest is a bit > much. A soviet Europe, accepting for a moment the naive hypothetical > that that's what would have happened without the American front moving > to meet the Russian front, would have been a disaster for America. The > windmills are neither here nor there. > > On Friday, March 7, 2003, at 02:10 PM, bdcolen wrote: > > > [so-and-so's comment makes me] wish that we had allowed the Soviets > > to swallow up little Holland along with the entire European > > continent - assuming that we had bothered > > to rescue you and your windmills from the Nazis. > > -- > John Brownlow > > http://www.pinkheadedbug.com > > -- > To unsubscribe, see > http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html - -- To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html - -- To unsubscribe, see http://mejac.palo-alto.ca.us/leica-users/unsub.html