Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2003/05/17

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Subject: Re: [Leica] Vignetting of Summicron M 2/28mm ASPH
From: Henning Wulff <henningw@archiphoto.com>
Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 18:42:00 -0700
References: <03E63C98-8802-11D7-A816-0050E42E6E0B@shaw.ca> <001101c31c26$03b78680$0100a8c0@liyue> <00ad01c31c38$3968ed70$70a72350@home> <003101c31c6e$37cd7d60$6401a8c0@oemcomputer> <006101c31c7a$166f8120$6400a8c0@mtwk.sps.mot.com> <001101c31cca$50826440$6401a8c0@oemcomputer> <p0510036dbaec76dddee0@[204.174.36.233]> <005201c31cd0$65cb3f60$6401a8c0@oemcomputer>

At 7:59 PM -0400 5/17/03, Don Dory wrote:
>Henning,
>I was mostly thinking of one of the aspheric elements forward or backward in
>space.  Perhaps I am naive, but I think up to two stops vignetting in the
>corners doesn't bother most people.  What was described was a severe hot
>spot in the center of the image.  I don't think that even an unpainted
>portion of the lens barrel could cause a hot spot in the center; such a hot
>spot would move around the frame depending on where the source of light was
>coming from.
>
>One of my underlying assumptions in this whole discussion was that the
>original complaint was a real visible problem.  Over the years, I have
>gradually realized that there is usually some basis of fact to reported
>problems.  There is, of course, the occasional troll that throws gasoline on
>a lighted match.  That is usually pretty rare.
>
>Don
>dorysrus@mindspring.com

Don,

The displacement of any element in _any_ direction will first be 
noticed in a loss of resolution and an increase in aberrations. If 
the displacement is axial, the effect will of course be symmetrical 
while radial displacement will produce non-symmetrical deterioration. 
Either type of displacement will produce very severe degradation well 
before the slightest effect of increased vignetting is seen.

I don't think the post was a troll; rather a misunderstanding of the 
design aim point and the resultant performance parameters.

I have noticed before that people coming from SLR's have different 
expectations of optical performance than those used to RF cameras, 
just as many cannot get used to the coincidence type rangefinders 
coming from AF SLR's. It can be difficult getting used to the 
different handling, just as the performance parameters of lenses of 
different construction can seem weird.

My 21/2.8 ASPH, while having less vignetting (talking about optical 
vignetting due to lens design rather than physical vignetting due to 
mount or element diameter limitations) than the SA 21/3.4, still has 
more light falloff than any recent good Nikon, Canon or whatever 
20/2.8. It is noticeable if you look for it, or if you are sensitive 
to it. Conversely, in all other respects it is a far superior lens 
then those same Nikon, Canon or whatever.

The 21/2.8 ASPH is a very mild retrofocus design, constructed that 
way so that metering is possible with the M5,6,7 cameras. This helps 
the vignetting over that of the 21/3.4, but the strongly retrofocus 
20/2.8 lenses for SLR's are better. There are a few tricks that are 
used to expand the exit pupil size at larger angles so that light 
falloff is less than demanded by cos^4, but at the present stage of 
development, to maintain the best overall performance within a given 
degree of retrofocus ratio will mean that there is more falloff with 
RF wideangle lenses than SLR lenses.

The highest level of performance can still be achieved by using a 
nearly symmetrical construction, and letting light falloff be as it 
may. To compensate for this, a center filter is then used. This cures 
all the problems except price, size and lens speed. Performance will 
be stellar, as exhibited by modern LF designs.

You can't have it all.

- -- 
    *            Henning J. Wulff
   /|\      Wulff Photography & Design
  /###\   mailto:henningw@archiphoto.com
  |[ ]|     http://www.archiphoto.com
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Replies: Reply from tripspud <tripspud@transbay.net> (Re: [Leica] Vignetting of Summicron M 2/28mm ASPH)
Reply from tripspud <tripspud@transbay.net> (Re: [Leica] Vignetting of Summicron M 2/28mm ASPH)
In reply to: Message from John Collier <jbcollier@shaw.ca> (Re: [Leica] Vignetting of Summicron M 2/28mm ASPH)
Message from "Y. Li" <liyue@netvigator.com> (Re: [Leica] Vignetting of Summicron M 2/28mm ASPH)
Message from "Rafael Alday" <rafaelalday@yahoo.es> (Re: [Leica] Vignetting of Summicron M 2/28mm ASPH)
Message from "Don Dory" <dorysrus@mindspring.com> (Re: [Leica] Vignetting of Summicron M 2/28mm ASPH)
Message from "Phong" <phong@doan-ltd.com> (Re: [Leica] Vignetting of Summicron M 2/28mm ASPH)
Message from "Don Dory" <dorysrus@mindspring.com> (Re: [Leica] Vignetting of Summicron M 2/28mm ASPH)
Message from Henning Wulff <henningw@archiphoto.com> (Re: [Leica] Vignetting of Summicron M 2/28mm ASPH)
Message from "Don Dory" <dorysrus@mindspring.com> (Re: [Leica] Vignetting of Summicron M 2/28mm ASPH)