Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2004/06/23

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Subject: [Leica] RE: Now casual v. serious photography
From: bdcolen at earthlink.net (B. D. Colen)
Date: Wed Jun 23 13:23:17 2004

Damn - I can?t disagree with anything you've written. Oh, wait... ;-)
Just to make it clear - Polaroid, as a company, wasn't finished off by
digital; it was finished off by it's failure to capitalize on digital.
Polaroid was uniquely positioned to own the digital P&S market - after
all, Polaroid was THE Instant Imaging company, and as such could have
simply seqeued into digital. It was a natural. But alas, it wasn't to
be.

Best
B. D.

-----Original Message-----
From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org
[mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of
Leonard J Kapner
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 2:34 PM
To: 'Leica Users Group'
Subject: RE: [Leica] RE: Now casual v. serious photography


Hi B.D.

Yours is a very thoughtful response, and I agree with most, if not all
of it. 

In my opinion, casual photography is a very different enterprise than
serious photography, which in the hands of an expert practitioner can be
a true craft. We should not allow ourselves to be confused about how to
discriminate one from the other.  My approach to and intent in
photographing my grandchildren at play or my family gathered at holiday
time is very different from my ongoing field work documenting the often
thin margins between civilization and nature, for example. There is
little point in attempting to debate the relative value of either casual
or serious, as that is for the practitioner and his/her consumer/clients
to assess.

Democratization of instant communication through technology seems to
have made this image capture situation what it is today...little islands
of excellence on a vast sea of mediocrity.  Edwin Land took a major step
in the '40s with Polaroid technology, and it had a mostly profitable 50
year run until the pixel showed up. I have seen a ton of crap documented
with the Polaroid medium, as well as some incredibly interesting LF
Polaroid artwork. The same goes for digital. 

Last year, as Trudy and I were wandering "gallery canyon" in Santa Fe NM
we came upon a gallery specializing in large (>20 x 30") digital prints.
The ones I studied were recognizable as photographs, but they were
more...they were a new form of artwork: Arresting, compelling images,
with strong and recognizable content, craft, emotion and meaning. This
experience opened my eyes for the first time to the possibilities of
mastering serious digital printing, and I hope I'm granted the energy
and time to learn how to do this well.

I yearn to do more serious photography than I have the time to do at
present. That's one of the reasons I'm transitioning into full
retirement. I want to devote myself to photographic essay projects that
are personally important to me - and I have been relatively unsuccessful
in doing so on a time-shared basis.

I suspect this is also true for a lot of us LUGers...

Len
Leonard J Kapner
E-Mail: ljkapner@cox.net 
Tel: (310) 377-5060 / Mobile: (310) 291-0140
 

-----Original Message-----
From: lug-bounces+ljkapner=cox.net@leica-users.org
[mailto:lug-bounces+ljkapner=cox.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of B. D.
Colen
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 9:51 AM
To: 'Leica Users Group'
Subject: RE: [Leica] RE: While it is happening (B. D. Colen)

Ah, but Len, I believe that "conversational" photography has been with
us for as long as there have been inexpensive cameras and film for
people who have no interest in photography per se, but simply want to
record a moment or event. Look at the great mass of snap shots - for
that matter look at many images posted on the LUG - and you'll see what
I mean. Does digital technology make this worse? I don't know - I'm not
convinced that cell phone cameras are any more of a threat to 'real
photography' than disposable film cameras and cheap Polaroid's. As I
said at some point when someone suggested shooting a wedding by putting
disposable cameras on every table - that's great if what you want are
hundreds of poorly composed, often fuzzy photos taken by a bunch of
drunks. ;-)

If technology is a culprit here, the technology is that which makes it
possible for people to widely disseminate their lousy snap shots. Back
when we were all shooting with film, before we had websites and email,
our lousy snap shots sat in shoe boxes, envelopes, or were mercifully
thrown away before anyone saw them. Now they're emailed around the
globe. That's the real problem.

Best

B. D.

-----Original Message-----
From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org
[mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of
Leonard J Kapner
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 12:01 PM
To: 'Leica Users Group'
Subject: RE: [Leica] RE: While it is happening (B. D. Colen)


My 2? on this issue...

I think B.D., Doug and Mark are all right about this one. 

I think most, but not all of what we read on the LUG is just "finger
chatting" and not literature, with a lot of the colloquialism, fuzzy
thinking and idiomatic expression one might expect in an ordinary social
conversation conducted among friends or peers. 

To keep us closer to on topic, I think I'm beginning to see the same
"conversational attitude" toward capturing images emerge, especially
with digital cameras in the hands of a "chimper" or worse, the cell
'phone cam. Those of us who learned and love to use the fully manual
camera such as Leica M series, with gorgeous, sharp optics, are probably
just as put off by "out of focus" and "poorly composed" thoughts as we
are similarly flawed photographic images.

And yes, just to place where I am along this spectrum, I find I am
usually offended by unintended unsharpness in a photograph!

Len

-- 

-----Original Message-----
From: lug-bounces+ljkapner=cox.net@leica-users.org
[mailto:lug-bounces+ljkapner=cox.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of B. D.
Colen
Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 6:43 AM
To: 'Leica Users Group'
Subject: RE: [Leica] RE: While it is happening (B. D. Colen)

You're absolutely correct, Mark; there are different standards. The
problem, however, is that the formal standard has weakened enormously in
the past 40 years, and having the second standard weakens it further, as
the sloppy Email writing carries over into more formal communication. At
least that's how I see it.



-----Original Message-----
From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org
[mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of
Mark Rabiner
Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 2004 9:51 PM
To: Leica Users Group
Subject: Re: [Leica] RE: While it is happening (B. D. Colen)


According to me there is a different kind of style and level of writing
which goes with email and email on lists. You don?t write email like you
would type or hand write a letter in the 60's all other cultural things
aside. This is not just me I think I got it from somewhere. Hook me up
and find out.

I think its like eating spaghetti with a friend. Sometimes you just make
a truce and agree to slurp. Romaine leaves can be best eaten by hand
sans fork. http://www.caesar-salad.com/


Mark Rabiner
Photography
Portland Oregon
http://rabinergroup.com/

(snip)


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In reply to: Message from ljkapner at cox.net (Leonard J Kapner) ([Leica] RE: Now casual v. serious photography)