Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2005/02/21

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Subject: [Leica] Thanks to BD and John Szarkowski
From: bdcolen at earthlink.net (B. D. Colen)
Date: Mon Feb 21 07:27:15 2005

Assuming we are discussing and not arguing:-)...

I see music and musical training as something very different, and relate
on a personal level to what you've said about music. As one who loves
music - primarily 60s folk, rock, jazz, some classical - I have dabbled
over the years at playing banjo and guitar, and play them very badly.
I'm really lousy at them - and this is not an "aw, shucks, I'm not
really any good," but rather a statement of fact ;-) - for two reasons;
I have never had the patience and dedication required to really master
any instrument. (I am, without any doubt what so ever, a classic ADD
type). IF I had the patience and IF I mastered the instruments, I still
doubt that I would be particularly good because I don't think I have
that special 'something' (real talent?) that sets the plunked apart from
the virtuoso.  The second reason that I am no good at either instrument
is that I have never had the patience, taken the time, to learn some
basic music theory. Yes, I know there are many 'natural' musicians who
never learned to read music and can play like angels - or devils - none
the less. But THOSE are the people with raw, natural - call it genetic -
talent; I don't have that.

What does all this have to do with photography? I think that it's
directly analogous to what we've been discussing. I believe that when
it comes to photography, I have that genetic 'something.' I believe that
I was born with an eye, if you will, so that once I learned to master
the basics of camera operation, it's been a matter of the more I've shot
over time, the better my work has gotten. Again, the ADD or something
comes in as a factor, because my photography got side-tracked and in my
late teens took a back seat to writing - and didn't really advance or
improve for decades. But since taking it up seriously - probably more
seriously than at any other time in my life - over the last six, seven
years - it has continually improved. (Again, I am not claiming to be
some 'hot shot' in any way, shape or form, nor am I claiming to be any
different from a substantial number of folks on this list, many of whose
photography is far better than mine.)

What I am saying is that if one doesn't have that innate ability, that
spark, all the rules in the world will only produce stilted,
rule-dominated, photographs that are duller than dirt to everyone except
the person who took them, those who love that person, and other people
without real ability. But if one has that spark, the image will out,
with or without studying the rules. In fact, as Ted noted, those who are
big on the rules may well look at the photos of people with talent who
know nothing about 'the rules' and find some of the rules played out in
the photos.

Does any of that makes sense? :-)

B. D.

-----Original Message-----
From: lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org
[mailto:lug-bounces+bdcolen=earthlink.net@leica-users.org] On Behalf Of
Jayanand Govindaraj
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 9:47 AM
To: Leica Users Group
Subject: Re: [Leica] Thanks to BD and John Szarkowski


Actually, its really the same as saying 'May the force be with you' ....
Cheers jayanand Govindaraj Chennai, India

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Mason" <masonster@gmail.com>
To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org>
Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Leica] Thanks to BD and John Szarkowski


> You know, what you quoted there is exactly how I see it. I am 
> classically trained in music, from college and chose not to do a 
> damned thing with it after all those years. Photography was never 
> taught to me on such a deep and formal level and it has become very 
> personal because of that. I sought education to an extent and shunned 
> it on another level. I love being able to take a "rule" and trying it 
> out. I also love being able to just shoot. They are both great and 
> both worthwhile for anyone. After 15+ years out of music school I 
> finally find myself able to listen to classical music - and it is 
> absolutely amazing to NOT think about all the history, theory, 
> analysis, etc. but I am also extremely glad to know all of it anyway.
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Dave
>
>
> On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 09:05:35 +0530, Jayanand Govindaraj 
> <jgovindaraj@eth.net> wrote:
>> The guy who got it right was Charlie Parker, the great jazz musician,
>> who
>> said that you have to learn all that needs to be learnt about your 
>> musical
>> instrument, and then forget all that you have learnt & play.
>>
>> The subconcious will then take over, full time.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Jayanand Govindaraj
>> Chennai, India
>>
>> > Hi B.D.,
>> > When I'm shooting, I'm shooting. I'm not analyzing composition of 
>> > triangles or other "rules of art design" before, click!  It's just 
>> > plain old fashion, see, shoot to motivation,over! Design factor 
>> > doesn't consciously enter into it at all, as it's what's happening 
>> > when I see things that motivate me.
>> >
>> > However, what is interesting, "art design people" look at my
>> > photography
>> > and do an analysis of it's art explaining the composition of
triangles 
>> > in
>> > body forms creating the strength of the picture. Interesting to be
able 
>> > to
>> > do that.
>> >
>> > Me? I just see bodies doing something interesting! ;-) Click.:-)
>> >
>> > ted
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Leica Users Group.
>> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more 
>> > information
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 


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Replies: Reply from masonster at gmail.com (David Mason) ([Leica] Thanks to BD and John Szarkowski)
Reply from jgovindaraj at eth.net (Jayanand Govindaraj) ([Leica] Thanks to BD and John Szarkowski)
In reply to: Message from jgovindaraj at eth.net (Jayanand Govindaraj) ([Leica] Thanks to BD and John Szarkowski)