Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2005/04/13

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Subject: [Leica] Re: Macro comparison
From: mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner)
Date: Wed Apr 13 18:42:26 2005

On 4/13/05 9:12 AM, "Douglas Sharp" <douglas.sharp@gmx.de> typed:

> Mark and Phil,
> I've been using both lenses and some others for the past 10 days, about 
> 1100
> macro and normal shots so far, and the Leica just isn't up to the quality 
> of
> the 
> Yashica for what I'm doing.The other Leica lenses used for larger flower
> shots, 
> Summicron 2/35 Summicron 2/50, 28mm have all been spot on, as have a Zeiss
> 1,7/50 and a Pentax 2,5/135mm.I don't think I have a "focus blindness" on 
> this
> one particular lens, particularly considering the fact that it has mostly 
> been
> used at f16 or f22. Focussed wide open and then stopped down to the working
> aperture. Even with a viewfinder magnifier the results probably wouldn't be
> any 
> better. I think the flower pictures prove the point. If not, the focus 
> chart
> shots may.
> And to be quite honest about it, I'll stick with the lens that's producing 
> the
> best results.
> cheers
> Douglas
> 
> 
Great Doug but what doe "Spot on" mean your getting them in focus?
;-) (obnoxious smiley face)
Maybe your groundglass likes one lens more.
Leica nut that I am I'm not really feeling all that threatened by some very
old Leica macro optic not measuring up to a modern lens. Even if that modern
lens has the overwhelmingly uninspiring name of "Yashica".
The main advantage for the Yashica system was that it had maybe ok sometimes
maybe better than ok optics but you could put Zeiss made in Japan stuff on
it which really was pretty good. Certainly something to give Nikon/Canon a
run for their money.  One or two Zeiss made in Germany as well I think.

Macro photography when people get into it they realize that it's a little
hard to do casually If they are hoping to match the results they've seen in
magazines or books. Its a lot more difficult than it looks.
You need to stop way down and use an ultra fast shutter speed at the same
time. It would help if the earth was a little closer the the sun. and the
sun was not a hot light.

There's plenty ways to go wrong in a macro shot. And always another way
lurking around the corner.
You've shown us in that last test pitfalls of figuring out if you've really
hit your focus or not. Comparing an out of focus area of one image against
an in focus area of another image and making a qualification.
So when you tell me some middle of the road optic made to a fraction of the
higher tolerances of anything Leica ever made is better than a solid (though
older) Leica be I'm not inclined to automatically believe that without
visual proof.
But I've gotten to the point where I just don't believe TALK about lenses.
As I'm getting to feel that TALKING about lenses its like dancing about
architecture.
The pictures should be out on the table.
And speaking for themselves.
As you just did with your test.
which we were able to qualify accordion-ly.

If there was some scratching in the brass in that shot we could be looking
out it might make a better going on viable lens test. All it think we're
testing here which such smooth surfaces and lack of detail is contrast and
contrast and be arrived at in plenty of different ways. Especially when we
get in the digital realm.
Or testing if the focus of your optics is matching your focus on your
groundglass.
Lucky is was a round (like the Earth) not flat subject.
If it was newspapers on the wall we could have easily been comparing an in
focus image with an out of focus image, sold all our Leicas, and never known
the difference. I'm sure this happens all the time.

Contrast can be arrived at in plenty of different ways.
Making you think a lens has more or less contrast than it really has.
Maybe contrast is being compensated for and you don't even know it.
Often tests end up being in effect a test of unsharp masking and not much
else. Not on your last one perhaps.
And contrast can later compensated for so you wonder if it's a little beside
the point. Like color saturation.
By the way you were locking the mirror up?

Shooting flowers is not a great way to find out if you have a cutting edge
macro lens or not - for the making of fast generalizing of one lens over
another.
Flowers are soft and mushy unless someone's been out spray painting the
roses red with a high rez bar code stencil.
And they move in the breeze. Even when you don't see them do it. And are
real hard to get all in focus in a real close-up.
You get the pestle. But not much mortar.

Lots of Twinkie-light hating people when they get into macro end up taking
the Twinkie defense. As they, with most serious macro photography are much
more an intricate part of the ballgame than even the photojournalists who
you see always with their flashes on camera even at high noon at the salt
flats; especially then.

With the flash making you able to shoot at f22 or 16 with an effective
shutter speed because of flash duration of 1/200,000 of a second you are
going to obtain some sharpness in a macro shot somewhere.
Often though not where you thought you'd like it.
Its so easy to mis your focus Even at f22.
Ironically it can make using a tripod not really crucial.
Things are moving in the breeze anyway.
They help you bracket your focus that way. Your you blast away with your
motor drive. Mirror lock up would not be necessary if you were using flash.

The prevalent technique of macro photography with a flash on a 3 foot coiled
usually TTL cord makes for shots which you'd never think were flash shots in
a million years. And with no fancier technique than this. No bounce. No
cards. No mini soft boxes. As in the bulk of the quality macro shots out
there in our collective unconscious....  That's how they're shot.

It's not real obvious why macro flash does not look like macro flash but
passes easily for natural light. I think it's somehow the out of context
ness of it.

A rose by any other light source.




Mark Rabiner
Photography
Portland Oregon
http://rabinergroup.com/





Replies: Reply from dorysrus at mindspring.com (Don Dory) ([Leica] Re: Macro comparison or why flash does not look like flash)
Reply from douglas.sharp at gmx.de (Douglas Sharp) ([Leica] Re: Macro comparison)
In reply to: Message from douglas.sharp at gmx.de (Douglas Sharp) ([Leica] Re: Macro comparison)