Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2005/06/08

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Subject: [Leica] The End of The "M"
From: bdcolen at comcast.net (B. D. Colen)
Date: Wed Jun 8 17:17:29 2005

First, Doug, there is no way any manufacturer is going to give you a sensor
upgrade. Period. Firmware - sure; I'm now on firmware version 4 for my
Olympus DSLR. But more important, if the first iteration gives you image
quality you're happy with, what's to upgrade. I don't know about you, but
when I was shooting film regularly - and even now when I shoot an occasional
roll - I was/am shooting Tri-X - at 800 asa. It's essentially the same film
I was shooting in 1960. Where's my "sensor upgrade?" How many people on this
list are shooting screw mount Leicas with lenses from the 40s and 50s - and
talking about the 'glow?' The only thing - and this point - that makes the
sensor "obsolete" within a year or two is the same thing that makes any
other good product "obsolete" - marketing crap. :-)


On 6/8/05 5:07 PM, "Douglas Sharp" <douglas.sharp@gmx.de> wrote:

> I'm in for a Digital-M only if there is a warranty saying I can get a
> sensor and software update every 2 years. If the bodywork and VF/RF last
> for generations then where's the sense of putting in a sensor system
> that is obsolete within a year or two.
> Douglas
> 
> B. D. Colen wrote:
>> No, if you really want the company to survive, the thing to hope for is 
>> the
>> end of the M film line and the beginning of the digital M line. Because if
>> they build it - and it is excellent, and it doesn't cost more than current
>> high-end DSLR bodies - people will definitely buy it. Photojournalists 
>> will
>> once again be using Leicas. Rich people will buy them. Not so rich people
>> will even buy them. Such a camera might just keep Leica afloat for a 
>> while.
>> 
>> 
>> On 6/8/05 4:09 PM, "Gene E. McCluney" <mccluney@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>>> Good points, B.D.!  One thing that makes me doubt any imminet "end
>>>> of the M" is that I seem to recall hearing somewhere---was it here
>>>> on the LUG?---that it's the R series equipment that was heavily into
>>>> the red ink, and that the M series was doing rather better.  But
>>>> please correct me if that recollection were mistaken.
>>>> 
>>>> Art Peterson
>>> 
>>> 
>>> It is really of no importance whether the "R" line is currently in
>>> the red, or at least "redder" than the "M" line.  What is relevant is
>>> rationalizing production costs in reference to a predominantly
>>> Digital product output.  It makes much more sense to "spin off" a new
>>> film "M" mount camera from whatever technology has to be in place to
>>> make the Digital "M" mount camera.   I doubt Leica could sustain
>>> multiple product lines making essentially incompatible parts cameras.
>>> They will have to have a design that will work for both digital and
>>> film with little difference in core parts (except for the digital
>>> bits), in order to continue making film cameras as production items.
>>> 
>>> It is old news that the Digital "M" would have to have a metal
>>> vertical running shutter, similar to the "R" cameras due to the
>>> requirements of the imager chip.  Who knows, maybe the shutter will
>>> be outsourced from Copal even.  I assume Leica will adhere to the
>>> good tactile and sensory perception of their products and in the end
>>> the products will be perceived as top of the line.
>>> 
>>> Gene McCluney
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: lug-bounces+arthur.peterson=navy.mil@leica-users.org
>>>> [mailto:lug-bounces+arthur.peterson=navy.mil@leica-users.org]On Behalf
>>>> Of B. D. Colen
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 15:12
>>>> To: Leica Users Group
>>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] The End of The "M"
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Uh, "cheesy Newsweek hoax?" Isn't it odd that while the world has been
>>>> trashing Newsweek for its "cheesy hoax," verified report after verified
>>>> report of Koran desecration has come out - including from the Pentagon? 
>>>> Yet
>>>> people speak of the "cheesy Newsweek hoax." Seems to me Newsweek got the
>>>> essential story right, and first; they were simply off on some of what 
>>>> are
>>>> essentially meaningless details.  So if you really care one way or 
>>>> another
>>>> about whether Ms are made in the future, I'd hope this is more like the
>>>> weapons of mass destruction hoax (did I say that?! :-)) than the 
>>>> "Newsweek
>>>> hoax."
>>>> 
>>>> Now, as to it being a troll, a hoax, etc....Who knows. But at this 
>>>> point it
>>>> would hardly be shocking - nor would it matter much, given that there 
>>>> are
>>>> enough M cameras out there to supply all those who want them unto the
>>>> second
>>>> and third generations. The only people to whom the "death of the M" will
>>>> really matter are those who work making them - the rest of those who 
>>>> care
>>>> about Ms will have them as long as they want them.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 6/8/05 1:05 PM, "mcyclwritr@comcast.net" <mcyclwritr@comcast.net> 
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Shades of Deep Throat? Perhaps he/she will be known as Wide Aperature.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On the other hand, it might be another cheesy Newsweek hoax:
>>>>> "Adherents to sacred Leica M riot over flushing of M-series."
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Chris Lawson
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ted writes:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Aaaaaahhhhhh the anonymous shadowy figure in the darkend under ground
>>>>>> parking lot whispers anonymously....... "The M end is near!"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And the faithful fall upon their knees crying, whailing with great
>>>>>> gnashing
>>>>>> of teeth pleading the end not cometh! The sky fills with blackening
>>>>>> clouds
>>>>>> and flashing Leica lightening!!!!!! Red dots rain from the heavens 
>>>>>> for 30
>>>>>> days and 30 nights, all to avail. The end cometh sayeth the anonymous
>>>>>> shadowy figure! ;-)
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Leonard J Kapner offered:
>>>>>> Subject: [Leica] The End of The "M"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Just to get our juices flowing this morning, here's a message that
>>>>>>> appeared In the photo.net Leica discussion group this morning from
>>>>>>> Kipling
>>>>>>> Phillips:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I just talked to the manager of a large camera distributor here in
>>>>>>> Germany
>>>>>>> and he told me that he's received information that the "M" camera 
>>>>>>> line
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> to be discontinued.I can't give any names.<<<
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Aaaaaahhhhhh the anonymous shadowy figure in the darkend under ground
>>>>>> parking lot whispers anonymously....... "The M end is near!"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And the faithful fall upon their knees crying, whailing with great
>>>>>> gnashing
>>>>>> of teeth pleading the end not cometh! The sky fills with blackening
>>>>>> clouds
>>>>>> and flashing Leica lightening!!!!!! Red dots rain from the heavens 
>>>>>> for 30
>>>>>> days and 30 nights, all to avail. The end cometh sayeth the anonymous
>>>>>> shadowy figure! ;-)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> WOW!  What a great rumour to start mid-week, heck we should get a 
>>>>>> couple
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> weeks worth of exciting horse hockey rumour filled key pounding out of
>>>>>> this
>>>>>> one! ;-)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> And the price on my M7's just went up a grand! ;-) Keep the rumours
>>>>>> going!
>>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ted
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>> 
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information



Replies: Reply from scott at adrenaline.com (Scott McLoughlin) ([Leica] The End of The "M")
In reply to: Message from douglas.sharp at gmx.de (Douglas Sharp) ([Leica] The End of The "M")