Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2005/06/08

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Subject: [Leica] The End of The "M"
From: scott at adrenaline.com (Scott McLoughlin)
Date: Wed Jun 8 21:01:47 2005
References: <BECD0297.1416%bdcolen@comcast.net>

B.D.,

I read here or elsewhere that the LCD and perhaps some of the
other parts on a DSLR don't have long expected half lives.


If it would help Leica sell fancy M style bodies, offering a sensor
upgrade every few years (for $$$, of course) might be kind of a
cool marketing gimmik.

Scott



B. D. Colen wrote:

>First, Doug, there is no way any manufacturer is going to give you a sensor
>upgrade. Period. Firmware - sure; I'm now on firmware version 4 for my
>Olympus DSLR. But more important, if the first iteration gives you image
>quality you're happy with, what's to upgrade. I don't know about you, but
>when I was shooting film regularly - and even now when I shoot an occasional
>roll - I was/am shooting Tri-X - at 800 asa. It's essentially the same film
>I was shooting in 1960. Where's my "sensor upgrade?" How many people on this
>list are shooting screw mount Leicas with lenses from the 40s and 50s - and
>talking about the 'glow?' The only thing - and this point - that makes the
>sensor "obsolete" within a year or two is the same thing that makes any
>other good product "obsolete" - marketing crap. :-)
>
>
>On 6/8/05 5:07 PM, "Douglas Sharp" <douglas.sharp@gmx.de> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>I'm in for a Digital-M only if there is a warranty saying I can get a
>>sensor and software update every 2 years. If the bodywork and VF/RF last
>>for generations then where's the sense of putting in a sensor system
>>that is obsolete within a year or two.
>>Douglas
>>
>>B. D. Colen wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>No, if you really want the company to survive, the thing to hope for is 
>>>the
>>>end of the M film line and the beginning of the digital M line. Because if
>>>they build it - and it is excellent, and it doesn't cost more than current
>>>high-end DSLR bodies - people will definitely buy it. Photojournalists 
>>>will
>>>once again be using Leicas. Rich people will buy them. Not so rich people
>>>will even buy them. Such a camera might just keep Leica afloat for a 
>>>while.
>>>
>>>
>>>On 6/8/05 4:09 PM, "Gene E. McCluney" <mccluney@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>Good points, B.D.!  One thing that makes me doubt any imminet "end
>>>>>of the M" is that I seem to recall hearing somewhere---was it here
>>>>>on the LUG?---that it's the R series equipment that was heavily into
>>>>>the red ink, and that the M series was doing rather better.  But
>>>>>please correct me if that recollection were mistaken.
>>>>>
>>>>>Art Peterson
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>It is really of no importance whether the "R" line is currently in
>>>>the red, or at least "redder" than the "M" line.  What is relevant is
>>>>rationalizing production costs in reference to a predominantly
>>>>Digital product output.  It makes much more sense to "spin off" a new
>>>>film "M" mount camera from whatever technology has to be in place to
>>>>make the Digital "M" mount camera.   I doubt Leica could sustain
>>>>multiple product lines making essentially incompatible parts cameras.
>>>>They will have to have a design that will work for both digital and
>>>>film with little difference in core parts (except for the digital
>>>>bits), in order to continue making film cameras as production items.
>>>>
>>>>It is old news that the Digital "M" would have to have a metal
>>>>vertical running shutter, similar to the "R" cameras due to the
>>>>requirements of the imager chip.  Who knows, maybe the shutter will
>>>>be outsourced from Copal even.  I assume Leica will adhere to the
>>>>good tactile and sensory perception of their products and in the end
>>>>the products will be perceived as top of the line.
>>>>
>>>>Gene McCluney
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: lug-bounces+arthur.peterson=navy.mil@leica-users.org
>>>>>[mailto:lug-bounces+arthur.peterson=navy.mil@leica-users.org]On Behalf
>>>>>Of B. D. Colen
>>>>>Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 15:12
>>>>>To: Leica Users Group
>>>>>Subject: Re: [Leica] The End of The "M"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Uh, "cheesy Newsweek hoax?" Isn't it odd that while the world has been
>>>>>trashing Newsweek for its "cheesy hoax," verified report after verified
>>>>>report of Koran desecration has come out - including from the Pentagon? 
>>>>>Yet
>>>>>people speak of the "cheesy Newsweek hoax." Seems to me Newsweek got the
>>>>>essential story right, and first; they were simply off on some of what 
>>>>>are
>>>>>essentially meaningless details.  So if you really care one way or 
>>>>>another
>>>>>about whether Ms are made in the future, I'd hope this is more like the
>>>>>weapons of mass destruction hoax (did I say that?! :-)) than the 
>>>>>"Newsweek
>>>>>hoax."
>>>>>
>>>>>Now, as to it being a troll, a hoax, etc....Who knows. But at this 
>>>>>point it
>>>>>would hardly be shocking - nor would it matter much, given that there 
>>>>>are
>>>>>enough M cameras out there to supply all those who want them unto the
>>>>>second
>>>>>and third generations. The only people to whom the "death of the M" will
>>>>>really matter are those who work making them - the rest of those who 
>>>>>care
>>>>>about Ms will have them as long as they want them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>On 6/8/05 1:05 PM, "mcyclwritr@comcast.net" <mcyclwritr@comcast.net> 
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>Shades of Deep Throat? Perhaps he/she will be known as Wide Aperature.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>On the other hand, it might be another cheesy Newsweek hoax:
>>>>>>"Adherents to sacred Leica M riot over flushing of M-series."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>-Chris Lawson
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ted writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Aaaaaahhhhhh the anonymous shadowy figure in the darkend under ground
>>>>>>>parking lot whispers anonymously....... "The M end is near!"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And the faithful fall upon their knees crying, whailing with great
>>>>>>>gnashing
>>>>>>>of teeth pleading the end not cometh! The sky fills with blackening
>>>>>>>clouds
>>>>>>>and flashing Leica lightening!!!!!! Red dots rain from the heavens 
>>>>>>>for 30
>>>>>>>days and 30 nights, all to avail. The end cometh sayeth the anonymous
>>>>>>>shadowy figure! ;-)
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Leonard J Kapner offered:
>>>>>>>Subject: [Leica] The End of The "M"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Just to get our juices flowing this morning, here's a message that
>>>>>>>>appeared In the photo.net Leica discussion group this morning from
>>>>>>>>Kipling
>>>>>>>>Phillips:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I just talked to the manager of a large camera distributor here in
>>>>>>>>Germany
>>>>>>>>and he told me that he's received information that the "M" camera 
>>>>>>>>line
>>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>>to be discontinued.I can't give any names.<<<
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Aaaaaahhhhhh the anonymous shadowy figure in the darkend under ground
>>>>>>>parking lot whispers anonymously....... "The M end is near!"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And the faithful fall upon their knees crying, whailing with great
>>>>>>>gnashing
>>>>>>>of teeth pleading the end not cometh! The sky fills with blackening
>>>>>>>clouds
>>>>>>>and flashing Leica lightening!!!!!! Red dots rain from the heavens 
>>>>>>>for 30
>>>>>>>days and 30 nights, all to avail. The end cometh sayeth the anonymous
>>>>>>>shadowy figure! ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>WOW!  What a great rumour to start mid-week, heck we should get a 
>>>>>>>couple
>>>>>>>of
>>>>>>>weeks worth of exciting horse hockey rumour filled key pounding out of
>>>>>>>this
>>>>>>>one! ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And the price on my M7's just went up a grand! ;-) Keep the rumours
>>>>>>>going!
>>>>>>>;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>ted
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>>Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Leica Users Group.
>>>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Leica Users Group.
>>>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Leica Users Group.
>>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Leica Users Group.
>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Leica Users Group.
>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Leica Users Group.
>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>  
>



In reply to: Message from bdcolen at comcast.net (B. D. Colen) ([Leica] The End of The "M")