Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2005/08/02
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]OK. BD. I live in the SF bay area. I obviously like to be here. That aside, the society here is far from being equal to the sexes. I look around the office and find 3 females among 50 or so software engineers. I have two sisters my age and know they both struggled deciding between career and marriage/children. They were NOT treated equally to me. I consider "western" dating rituals, and a 30% divorce rate (I am married for the 2nd time myself) and find this absurd, unnecessary. At the same time, I know there are educated and wealthy people, that strive for sexual equality just like "the west", that practice arranging marriages, successfully. Bringing this the context of female circumcision I just plain insulting. Any wedding photographer on the list who can comment on how little the typical "western" marriage has to do with romance ? Maybe that will get us back, closer to topic ... How big is your wife's rock ? Did you buy or rent a Tuxedo :-) Cheers, Roland. --- "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@comcast.net> wrote: > Not if you're the one doing the arrangement, or the male. ;-) > > > On 8/2/05 4:13 PM, "Der Eiserne Reiter" <ferider@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > I have several friends whose marriage was arranged. Another friend will > > be > > getting > > married soon, arranged back home by his family. Believing in arranged > > marriages > > has nothing to do with discrimination. > > > > Regards, > > > > Roland. > > > > --- "B. D. Colen" <bdcolen@comcast.net> wrote: > > > >> With all due respect, Jayanand, it's not a question of "liberal European > >> thinking;" it's a question of whether one views women and men as > >> equals, or > >> whether one views women as chattel, honored chattel in some societies, > >> but > >> chattel none the less. > >> > >> B. D. > >> > >> > >> On 8/2/05 9:21 AM, "Jayanand Govindaraj" <jgovindaraj@eth.net> wrote: > >> > >>> You equate an arranged marriage with female circumcision? Wow! Liberal > >>> European thinking!! > >>> Cheers > >>> Jayanand Govindaraj > >>> Chennai, India > >>> (who has been happily married for 27 years through an arranged > >>> marriage, and > >>> has had no problem with it) > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Nathan Wajsman" <nathan.wajsman@planet.nl> > >>> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug@leica-users.org> > >>> Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 10:30 AM > >>> Subject: Re: [Leica] Piercings and Tatoos > >>> > >>> > >>>> Well, I feel like I understand quite a few different cultures because > >>>> of > >>>> my rather nomadic life, the international family I am part of, my > >>>> Puerto > >>>> Rican wife etc. I agree with Dennis' sentiment that we should respect > >>>> the > >>>> fact that things are done differently in other cultures/religions, > >>>> but I > >>>> do not agree that this implies that they are all equally valid, > >>>> particularly in modern, liberal societies like the US or Europe. An > >>>> arranged marriage, for me, is beyond the pale in the 21st century, as > >>>> is, > >>>> for example, female circumcision--which after all, also is grounded > >>>> in a > >>>> strong cultural tradition. In Denmark there have been cases of parents > >>>> sending their daughters to Somalia to undergo this type of > >>>> mutilation, and > >>>> of parents sending their daughters to rural Turkey or Pakistan for an > >>>> arranged marriage against their will. Both types of activities are > >>>> illegal, and rightly so. > >>>> > >>>> As someone who has lived most of his life as an immigrant in four > >>>> different countries, I say that if someone wants to live like that, > >>>> then > >>>> they should do so in South Asia or wherever this type of tradition is > >>>> considered normal. My guiding motto on this type of issue is the > >>>> wonderful > >>>> American expression, "shit or get off the pot." > >>>> > >>>> Strong family ties are all well and good, but not if they manifest > >>>> themselves in coercion or in practices that are unacceptable to the > >>>> wider > >>>> society. Some decades ago the Mormons had to accept that polygamy was > >>>> not > >>>> acceptable in the United States and they abandoned this tradition > >>>> (yes, I > >>>> am aware of the splinter groups that still cling to it, but mainstream > >>>> Mormons do not). As far as I can tell from the Mormon friends and > >>>> co-workers I had in the US, this has not had any negative impact on > >>>> their > >>>> family ties or ability to practice their religion. > >>>> > >>>> BTW, we know several South Asians (as evident from my latest PAWs), > >>>> many > >>>> Muslims among them, who all live in thoroughly modern, voluntary > >>>> marriages, in many cases to "infidels." > >>>> > >>>> Nathan > >>>> > >>>> Dennis Painter wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> This is a very interesting set of photos. One certainly needs to > >>>>> know a > >>>>> bit of what's going on here to understand them. I am glad that Tina > >>>>> is > >>>>> working on this project as I doubt anyone could do better than her. > >>>>> Despite that I am not sure photographs will lead to greater > >>>>> understanding. > >>>>> > >>>>> Much has been said of and about different cultures and cultural > >>>>> differences. Here are my beliefs. > >>>>> > >>>>> It's almost impossible to truly understand another culture. Perhaps > >>>>> if > >>>>> you know all the history, can read the language, and live within that > >>>>> culture for years, then, you might really understand. > >>>>> > >>>>> If you apply your standards, your culture, against another you are > >>>>> lost > >>>>> to understanding. > >>>>> > >>>>> The best way of "understanding" is to accept that what they believe > >>>>> and > >>>>> do is correct to their way of life and culture. Respect their > >>>>> culture. > >>>>> This helps greatly to avoid forming prejudice in your mind. > >>>>> > >>>>> It's hard for me to put this into words. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> -- > >>>> Nathan Wajsman > >>>> Almere, The Netherlands > >>>> > >>>> General photography: http://www.nathanfoto.com > >>>> Seville photography: http://www.fotosevilla.com > >>>> Stock photography: http://www.alamy.com/search-results.asp?qt=wajsman > >>>> http://myloupe.com/home/found_photographer.php?photographer=507 > >>>> Prints for sale: http://www.photodeluge.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Leica Users Group. > >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Leica Users Group. > >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Leica Users Group. > >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > >> > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________ > > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Leica Users Group. > > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? 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