Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/03/21

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Subject: [Leica] Lets start a Leica equipment discussion
From: walt at waltjohnson.com (Walt Johnson)
Date: Tue Mar 21 16:07:40 2006
References: <44204026.4040009@waltjohnson.com> <C045B8B6.E380%bdcolen@comcast.net> <a2f8f4470603211107i53f7b401h6399c855599341a2@mail.gmail.com>

No, not for many years. If I did though there would be a chance I'd 
wanna pop a cap on Barney.

Je suis desolee

Walt

Daniel Ridings wrote:

>Yeah, but he likes guns, BD. Let's not get too soft on him.
>
>:-)
>
>Daniel
>
>On 3/21/06, B. D. Colen <bdcolen@comcast.net> wrote:
>  
>
>>Walt, your kindness and generosity of spirit know no bounds
>>
>>
>>On 3/21/06 1:04 PM, "Walt Johnson" <walt@waltjohnson.com> wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>B.D.:
>>>
>>>Having survived the last few days of "mindless banter" (I did my share)
>>>here on the LUG taught me something. Just finished reading your last
>>>post and firmed up my otherwise flighty thoughts. You are one hell of a
>>>fine writer and have that gift you mentioned yourself. I only hope your
>>>students and those here will pay close attention.
>>>
>>>Walt
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Hi, Barney - Of course I don't think that people shouldn't try. But try 
>>>>to
>>>>be what, and try what?
>>>>
>>>>Yes, one has to be pretty hopeless in many ways not to be able to take a
>>>>"decent" photograph. But I firmly believe that to go much beyond that one
>>>>has to have some sort of inborn 'gift,' just as I believe that to be 
>>>>able to
>>>>write well, play music well, paint well, one has to have a 'gift.' In
>>>>photography, that 'gift' is an 'eye ' - no, I can't define any of this.
>>>>
>>>>No one I know of has HCB's 'eye.' So why try to be HCB? Study his work?
>>>>Absolutely. Try to figure out what it is about it that makes it so 
>>>>special?
>>>>Sure. Try to emulate that "specialness" in your own work? Sure. But given
>>>>that most people think of HCB as a 'photo journalist,' or a documentary
>>>>photographer, rather than as an 'art photographer,' how in (*)_*(_ are 
>>>>they
>>>>going to even attempt to emulate him? ;-) I know, for example, that many
>>>>people think very highly of HCB's portraits; I don't. I think that, as a
>>>>body work, they are - with a few very obvious examples - his weakest 
>>>>work.
>>>>Why? Because they required directly engaging with people, and I don't 
>>>>think
>>>>that people particularly interested old Henri - I think he was far more
>>>>interested in people's physical form, and the images he could create 
>>>>using
>>>>their forms as compositional elements.
>>>>
>>>>I believe, that rather than trying to emulate our photographic 'heroes' -
>>>>and we all have them - we have to get them out of our heads so that we 
>>>>can,
>>>>as you so sagely observe, find our own voices.
>>>>
>>>>But beyond all that, I made my first comment in response to what I few as
>>>>this nonsensical apparent belief that emulating HCB has something to do 
>>>>with
>>>>equipment. Why is that nonsensical? Because if I believe that if he had 
>>>>been
>>>>photographing during the last 20 years of his life, rather than drawing -
>>>>and what does that tell you? - HCB would have been photographing with the
>>>>latest M bodies and the latest Leica glass - and his images would have 
>>>>had a
>>>>different look than his earlier images, shot with softer lenses, had.
>>>>
>>>>Best
>>>>B. D.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On 3/21/06 11:35 AM, "Barney Quinn" <bquinn@sgi.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>B.D.,
>>>>>
>>>>>I think that every artist - in any field - has to find his or her own 
>>>>>voice,
>>>>>and I think that another way of thinking of learning to be a 
>>>>>photographer, a
>>>>>writer, a musician, or an artist is that it as a journey toward finding
>>>>>one's
>>>>>own voice. Learning to take pictures in the style of HCB, write music 
>>>>>in the
>>>>>style of Beethoven, or paint pictures that look like Monet is an useful 
>>>>>part
>>>>>of the journey because it requires thinking about what you are 
>>>>>perceiving
>>>>>and
>>>>>then working out how to use the various technical things available to 
>>>>>you so
>>>>>that you can reproduce it. Beyond that I am wondering about the creative
>>>>>value
>>>>>of imitating the work of a great master. Imitation may be the sincerest 
>>>>>form
>>>>>of flattery, but HCB was already there and already did that.
>>>>>
>>>>>I think that in one sense you are exactly right. I play the cello in my
>>>>>secret
>>>>>life. To play like Yo-Yo Ma or Pierre Fournier or any master you should
>>>>>choose
>>>>>to name probably really does require both that you be born with some 
>>>>>special
>>>>>gifts, start your education while still quite young, and that you devote
>>>>>hours
>>>>>and hours and hours to learning your art. Fair enough. But, there's an
>>>>>exclusionary implication to this arguement which I also think needs to 
>>>>>be
>>>>>put
>>>>>on the table. That's this. The blunt truth is that most of us aren't 
>>>>>born
>>>>>with
>>>>>the gifts to be virtuosi in any field. But, that doesn't mean that one 
>>>>>can't
>>>>>learn. There are very few tone deaf people. There are very few people 
>>>>>who,
>>>>>if
>>>>>they are motivated, can't learn to play the cello well enough to play 
>>>>>in a
>>>>>community orchestra, and there are some surprisingly good community
>>>>>orchestras
>>>>>around. There are very few people who, if they are willing to put in the
>>>>>effort, can't learn to take decent photographs.
>>>>>
>>>>>I know that you didn't say that people can't learn, and I know that you
>>>>>don't
>>>>>believe that. I just wanted to say that just because most of us aren't 
>>>>>born
>>>>>with the special gifts of HCB doesn't mean that we shouldn't try. I am 
>>>>>under
>>>>>no illusions about the absolute level of my abilities as either a 
>>>>>cellist or
>>>>>a
>>>>>photographer. But, I think that the arts are of vital importance. I 
>>>>>have no
>>>>>idea why. It's just what I think. And, I think that learning to take
>>>>>pictures,
>>>>>write, play, whatever, is a wonderful journey and I think that each 
>>>>>person
>>>>>who
>>>>>goes on that journey makes the world a better place in ways I cant' 
>>>>>explain.
>>>>>And I definitly think that the world would be a much better place if 
>>>>>more
>>>>>people spent their time trying to learn to create rather then shooting 
>>>>>at
>>>>>each
>>>>>other.
>>>>>
>>>>>Sorry, just felt like posting something this morning,.
>>>>>
>>>>>Barney
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>"B. D. Colen" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>The only way to get photos "like HCB" has nothing to do with what 
>>>>>>lenses
>>>>>>you have in a drawer, or what camera you use them on; it is to be born 
>>>>>>with
>>>>>>his artistic ability and sensibility. HCB would have shot "like HCB no
>>>>>>matter what equipment he had used, as long as that equipment had 
>>>>>>allowed
>>>>>>him to realize his vision. I'd concentrate on developing the vision, 
>>>>>>not
>>>>>>trying to ape the style. ;-)
>>>>>>B. D.
>>>>>>___
>>>>>>Sent with SnapperMail
>>>>>>www.snappermail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>...... Original Message .......
>>>>>>On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:13:17 -0800 Richard 
>>>>>><richard-lists@imagecraft.com>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>"Why not, we all have at least a Leica body or lens right?
>>>>>>"
>>>>>>"Most of us suffer from equipment-itis, you know, the urge to say, "If 
>>>>>>I
>>>>>>"only have that XYZ, I can get that photo just like what's his name 
>>>>>>HCB!" I
>>>>>>"contend that this is harder to do if you start the Leica obsession 
>>>>>>late so
>>>>>>"you don't already have a drawer full of Elmars, Summicrons, etc. I 
>>>>>>mean if
>>>>>>"the drawer already has a few ASPH 'luxes or 'crons of different focal
>>>>>>"lengths, there aren't a whole lot of (logical) reasons to get anything
>>>>>>else!
>>>>>>"
>>>>>>"Discuss,... or not.
>>>>>>"
>>>>>>"// richard (This email is for mailing lists. To reach me directly, 
>>>>>>please
>>>>>>"use richard at imagecraft.com)
>>>>>>"
>>>>>>"
>>>>>>"_______________________________________________
>>>>>>"Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>"See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>>
>>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>>Leica Users Group.
>>>>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>Barney Quinn, Jr.
>>>>>(301) 688-1982 (O)
>>>>>(240) 535-3036 (C)
>>>>>(877) 220-0981 (P)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>Leica Users Group.
>>>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>Leica Users Group.
>>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>Leica Users Group.
>>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>      
>>>
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Leica Users Group.
>>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Leica Users Group.
>See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
>  
>

In reply to: Message from walt at waltjohnson.com (Walt Johnson) ([Leica] Lets start a Leica equipment discussion)
Message from bdcolen at comcast.net (B. D. Colen) ([Leica] Lets start a Leica equipment discussion)
Message from dlridings at gmail.com (Daniel Ridings) ([Leica] Lets start a Leica equipment discussion)