Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/03/21
[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]I think I've given up looking for purity. :-) On 3/21/06 2:07 PM, "Daniel Ridings" <dlridings@gmail.com> wrote: > Yeah, but he likes guns, BD. Let's not get too soft on him. > > :-) > > Daniel > > On 3/21/06, B. D. Colen <bdcolen@comcast.net> wrote: >> Walt, your kindness and generosity of spirit know no bounds >> >> >> On 3/21/06 1:04 PM, "Walt Johnson" <walt@waltjohnson.com> wrote: >> >>> B.D.: >>> >>> Having survived the last few days of "mindless banter" (I did my share) >>> here on the LUG taught me something. Just finished reading your last >>> post and firmed up my otherwise flighty thoughts. You are one hell of a >>> fine writer and have that gift you mentioned yourself. I only hope your >>> students and those here will pay close attention. >>> >>> Walt >>> >>>> Hi, Barney - Of course I don't think that people shouldn't try. But try >>>> to >>>> be what, and try what? >>>> >>>> Yes, one has to be pretty hopeless in many ways not to be able to take a >>>> "decent" photograph. But I firmly believe that to go much beyond that >>>> one >>>> has to have some sort of inborn 'gift,' just as I believe that to be >>>> able >>>> to >>>> write well, play music well, paint well, one has to have a 'gift.' In >>>> photography, that 'gift' is an 'eye ' - no, I can't define any of this. >>>> >>>> No one I know of has HCB's 'eye.' So why try to be HCB? Study his work? >>>> Absolutely. Try to figure out what it is about it that makes it so >>>> special? >>>> Sure. Try to emulate that "specialness" in your own work? Sure. But >>>> given >>>> that most people think of HCB as a 'photo journalist,' or a documentary >>>> photographer, rather than as an 'art photographer,' how in (*)_*(_ are >>>> they >>>> going to even attempt to emulate him? ;-) I know, for example, that many >>>> people think very highly of HCB's portraits; I don't. I think that, as a >>>> body work, they are - with a few very obvious examples - his weakest >>>> work. >>>> Why? Because they required directly engaging with people, and I don't >>>> think >>>> that people particularly interested old Henri - I think he was far more >>>> interested in people's physical form, and the images he could create >>>> using >>>> their forms as compositional elements. >>>> >>>> I believe, that rather than trying to emulate our photographic 'heroes' >>>> - >>>> and we all have them - we have to get them out of our heads so that we >>>> can, >>>> as you so sagely observe, find our own voices. >>>> >>>> But beyond all that, I made my first comment in response to what I few >>>> as >>>> this nonsensical apparent belief that emulating HCB has something to do >>>> with >>>> equipment. Why is that nonsensical? Because if I believe that if he had >>>> been >>>> photographing during the last 20 years of his life, rather than drawing >>>> - >>>> and what does that tell you? - HCB would have been photographing with >>>> the >>>> latest M bodies and the latest Leica glass - and his images would have >>>> had >>>> a >>>> different look than his earlier images, shot with softer lenses, had. >>>> >>>> Best >>>> B. D. >>>> >>>> >>>> On 3/21/06 11:35 AM, "Barney Quinn" <bquinn@sgi.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> B.D., >>>>> >>>>> I think that every artist - in any field - has to find his or her own >>>>> voice, >>>>> and I think that another way of thinking of learning to be a >>>>> photographer, >>>>> a >>>>> writer, a musician, or an artist is that it as a journey toward finding >>>>> one's >>>>> own voice. Learning to take pictures in the style of HCB, write music >>>>> in >>>>> the >>>>> style of Beethoven, or paint pictures that look like Monet is an useful >>>>> part >>>>> of the journey because it requires thinking about what you are >>>>> perceiving >>>>> and >>>>> then working out how to use the various technical things available to >>>>> you >>>>> so >>>>> that you can reproduce it. Beyond that I am wondering about the >>>>> creative >>>>> value >>>>> of imitating the work of a great master. Imitation may be the sincerest >>>>> form >>>>> of flattery, but HCB was already there and already did that. >>>>> >>>>> I think that in one sense you are exactly right. I play the cello in my >>>>> secret >>>>> life. To play like Yo-Yo Ma or Pierre Fournier or any master you should >>>>> choose >>>>> to name probably really does require both that you be born with some >>>>> special >>>>> gifts, start your education while still quite young, and that you >>>>> devote >>>>> hours >>>>> and hours and hours to learning your art. Fair enough. But, there's an >>>>> exclusionary implication to this arguement which I also think needs to >>>>> be >>>>> put >>>>> on the table. That's this. The blunt truth is that most of us aren't >>>>> born >>>>> with >>>>> the gifts to be virtuosi in any field. But, that doesn't mean that one >>>>> can't >>>>> learn. There are very few tone deaf people. There are very few people >>>>> who, >>>>> if >>>>> they are motivated, can't learn to play the cello well enough to play >>>>> in a >>>>> community orchestra, and there are some surprisingly good community >>>>> orchestras >>>>> around. There are very few people who, if they are willing to put in >>>>> the >>>>> effort, can't learn to take decent photographs. >>>>> >>>>> I know that you didn't say that people can't learn, and I know that you >>>>> don't >>>>> believe that. I just wanted to say that just because most of us aren't >>>>> born >>>>> with the special gifts of HCB doesn't mean that we shouldn't try. I am >>>>> under >>>>> no illusions about the absolute level of my abilities as either a >>>>> cellist >>>>> or >>>>> a >>>>> photographer. But, I think that the arts are of vital importance. I >>>>> have >>>>> no >>>>> idea why. It's just what I think. And, I think that learning to take >>>>> pictures, >>>>> write, play, whatever, is a wonderful journey and I think that each >>>>> person >>>>> who >>>>> goes on that journey makes the world a better place in ways I cant' >>>>> explain. >>>>> And I definitly think that the world would be a much better place if >>>>> more >>>>> people spent their time trying to learn to create rather then shooting >>>>> at >>>>> each >>>>> other. >>>>> >>>>> Sorry, just felt like posting something this morning,. >>>>> >>>>> Barney >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> "B. D. Colen" wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> The only way to get photos "like HCB" has nothing to do with what >>>>>> lenses >>>>>> you have in a drawer, or what camera you use them on; it is to be born >>>>>> with >>>>>> his artistic ability and sensibility. HCB would have shot "like HCB no >>>>>> matter what equipment he had used, as long as that equipment had >>>>>> allowed >>>>>> him to realize his vision. I'd concentrate on developing the vision, >>>>>> not >>>>>> trying to ape the style. ;-) >>>>>> B. D. >>>>>> ___ >>>>>> Sent with SnapperMail >>>>>> www.snappermail.com >>>>>> >>>>>> ...... Original Message ....... >>>>>> On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 20:13:17 -0800 Richard >>>>>> <richard-lists@imagecraft.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> "Why not, we all have at least a Leica body or lens right? >>>>>> " >>>>>> "Most of us suffer from equipment-itis, you know, the urge to say, >>>>>> "If I >>>>>> "only have that XYZ, I can get that photo just like what's his name >>>>>> HCB!" >>>>>> I >>>>>> "contend that this is harder to do if you start the Leica obsession >>>>>> late >>>>>> so >>>>>> "you don't already have a drawer full of Elmars, Summicrons, etc. I >>>>>> mean >>>>>> if >>>>>> "the drawer already has a few ASPH 'luxes or 'crons of different focal >>>>>> "lengths, there aren't a whole lot of (logical) reasons to get >>>>>> anything >>>>>> else! >>>>>> " >>>>>> "Discuss,... or not. >>>>>> " >>>>>> "// richard (This email is for mailing lists. To reach me directly, >>>>>> please >>>>>> "use richard at imagecraft.com) >>>>>> " >>>>>> " >>>>>> "_______________________________________________ >>>>>> "Leica Users Group. >>>>>> "See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Barney Quinn, Jr. >>>>> (301) 688-1982 (O) >>>>> (240) 535-3036 (C) >>>>> (877) 220-0981 (P) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Leica Users Group. >>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Leica Users Group. >>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Leica Users Group. >>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Leica Users Group. >> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Leica Users Group. > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information