Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2006/06/24

[Author Prev] [Author Next] [Thread Prev] [Thread Next] [Author Index] [Topic Index] [Home] [Search]

Subject: [Leica] Armed America on the Road
From: Jim at hemenway.com (Jim Hemenway)
Date: Sat Jun 24 19:30:48 2006
References: <3.0.2.32.20060624195634.02b707d0@pop.infionline.net> <C0C36032.124C1%bd@bdcolenphoto.com> <6.1.0.6.2.20060624184306.06288e38@192.168.100.42>

You two READ that screed?

Jim


Richard wrote:

> B.D. I'd be upset too except I know where the "delete" key is. :-)
> 
> At 06:33 PM 6/24/2006, you wrote:
> 
>> So once again, we read a thousand words of MJS's opinions on a 
>> subject, only
>> to be told the rest of us should confine our opinions on the same 
>> subject to
>> the Forum?
>> It would be funny, were it not so sad....
>>
>>
>> On 6/24/06 7:56 PM, "Marc James Small" <msmall@aya.yale.edu> wrote:
>>
>> > At 04:39 PM 6/24/06 -0400, Jim Shulman wrote:
>> >> I understand that's the whole point of this project--that gun 
>> ownership is a
>> >> lot more "normal" than most of us non-owners would imagine.  While 
>> the usual
>> >> media image of a gun owner is some wild-eyed fanatic living in a 
>> garret,
>> >> Kyle is showing otherwise--that it's as ubiquitous as owning a Toro 
>> riding
>> >> mower or Veg-o-matic.
>> >>
>> >> That's not to say more desirable than owning the mower or Popeil 
>> items--he's
>> >> not making judgments about that--but it is rather remarkable in 
>> that he's
>> >> putting faces on what had been anonymity.
>> >
>> > A number of us on the LUG are gun owners.  I don't hunt but I do target
>> > shoot on occasion.  (My rifle is a 1909 Argentine Mauser rechambered 
>> to .30
>> > - '06 I picked up years back from my Secretary's father as part of a 
>> fee.
>> > I had a 3X-9X by 30mm scope mounted on it -- the scope was made by the
>> > Arsenal folks in the Ukraine, the guys who gave us those Contax RF 
>> clones,
>> > the Kiev cameras, for so many years -- it even has the oblate triune 
>> sphere
>> > logo on it.)  I don't own it for intimdiation, I don't own it for 
>> machismo,
>> > I don't own it for self-defense (though my wife came equipped with a.22
>> > Ruger target pistol along with a whole aresenal, so our differences 
>> tend to
>> > be VERY peacefully resolved <he grins> -- but, then, she is a Michigan
>> > farmer by origin and grew up around guns much more so than I did.)  
>> I do
>> > take my rifle out every couple of years with a couple of boxes of 
>> 280-grain
>> > ammunition (have to use the high-power rounds as there is the barrel 
>> is a
>> > tad larger than the regulation .30 - '06 one, tehcnically it's a 7.62mm
>> > round in an 8mm barrel, though the actual measurements are a bit 
>> different..
>> >
>> > There were no firearms in my house when I was growing up but my 
>> father was
>> > retired from the Army and had commanded an anti-aircraft battery in 
>> Alaska
>> > in combat during the Second World War.  I learned to shoot when I 
>> was 12
>> > and taught marksmanship when I was a Boy Scout camp staff member and 
>> later
>> > as a Scoutmaster (along with teaching campcraft, pioneering, map 
>> work and
>> > orienteering, first aid, lifesaving and so forth).  I consistently shot
>> > Marksman in the Army, generally on the M1 or M14 or M16 but on 
>> occasion on
>> > the M1911A1 .45 automatic or on a substitute such as a .22 target 
>> pistol.
>> > The Army allowed me to fire a LOT of weapons from small-bore rifles and
>> > pistols up through 81mm and 4.2" mortars to 90mm and 105mm tank guns 
>> and
>> > even 105mm and 155mm and, on a few occasions, 8" howitzers.  I never 
>> had a
>> > desire to own a gun despite an intense interest in military history:
>> > during most of my time, I was much more concerned with the maintenance
>> > cycles and MTBF for, say, the M1 tank or the CUCV than I was on 
>> popping off
>> > rounds downrange.
>> >
>> > I own a gun just because I own a gun.  Very few of my friends know 
>> that I
>> > own a gun and that my wife has an arsenal that would choke the 
>> average pawn
>> > shop.  We do not belong to the NRA or the like, we do not have
>> > bumper-stickers on our cars (well, at election time, I generally sport
>> > something along the lines of OCTAVIA JOHNSON FOR SHERIFF or the 
>> like), we
>> > do not go to demonstrations.  I know a bunch of other gun owners who 
>> are
>> > much of a sort with my pattern, and I suspect that most US gun 
>> owners just
>> > own guns and so be it.  It is not the central part of our lives, it 
>> is just
>> > something we do and, yes, my wife came equipped with a riding mower 
>> which
>> > seems a bit of an overkill on my small yard and I tend to do my 
>> cooking on
>> > cast iron.  The only Cuisinart I use is our coffee maker, though I 
>> prefer
>> > to grind the beans in a Krups grinder proving that even a mild 
>> techno-geek
>> > can go low-tech on occasion.  (I do have my late mother's Cuisinart
>> > processer but my wife simply refuses to use it, preferring the old 
>> ways of
>> > doing it by hand.  We are having strip steaks and blanched asparagus 
>> and a
>> > bottle of Chilean red wine in a few minutes:  we do eat simply but 
>> well!)
>> >
>> > USian citizens have rights derived from the common sovereignity and
>> > expressed in our Constitution.  The Bible does not provide any 
>> "rights" to
>> > Chirstians as Paul makes clear that anyone saved -- and he does not
>> > restrict this to "Christians", interestingly -- is saved but through 
>> the
>> > infinite Grace of God.  We Christians do have a lot of obligations, 
>> most of
>> > which we miss -- how many of us have ever gone down to Skid Row on
>> > Thanksgiving Morning and brought it a couple of hungover street 
>> folks for a
>> > meal in the haven of our home? -- but at the same time we have no
>> > guarantees with Christ other than that if we throw ourselves 
>> wholeheartedly
>> > into his service, we shall earn His happiness.  But, again, there 
>> are only
>> > the haziest of guarantees in the Bible and I get fidgety when folks 
>> start
>> > talking about a "God-given right" to bear firearms.  The right came 
>> from
>> > the forefathers when they developed our common polity by drafting the
>> > Constitution, and is only as strong as we make it.  (I can discuss 
>> Second
>> > Amendment rights all day long but, as I note below, that is not a 
>> proper
>> > topic for discussion on the LUG., so contact me off-List, as I am not a
>> > member of the Forum.)
>> >
>> > We can argue the radical fringes all we want but that probably 
>> belongs on
>> > the Forum and not on the LUG itself as we would soon be discussing 
>> ALL of
>> > the radical fringe elements and then we'd be into the sort of general
>> > donnybrook which makes my Riley blood elated but which causes my 
>> Hielan'
>> > ancestors to roll over in their graves at the wasting of a good 
>> fight on
>> > something which cannot be resolved.  So, the Forum is probably the 
>> place
>> > for the discussion of the social aspects of firearm ownership, while a
>> > discussion of these fine pictures is, of course, at the heart of the 
>> LUG.
>> >
>> > Sorry to have rattled on so long, but I am responding in fine to a 
>> bunch of
>> > comments from other members and just wanted you guys to realize that 
>> there
>> > are gun owners on the LUG -- for that matter, our Senior Member, was 
>> taught
>> > BRM (Basic Rifle Marksmanship) by William Tell shortly before he did 
>> that
>> > magnificent book of combat photographs taken during the Wars of the 
>> Roses,
>> > though I don't know that Ted has ever owned a firearm.
>> >
>> > Marc
>> >
>> > msmall@aya.yale.edu
>> > Cha robh b?s fir gun ghr?s fir!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Leica Users Group.
>> > See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 
> 
> // richard (This email is for mailing lists. To reach me directly, 
> please use richard at imagecraft.com)
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
> 


Replies: Reply from dlridings at gmail.com (Daniel Ridings) ([Leica] Armed America on the Road)
Reply from richard-lists at imagecraft.com (Richard) ([Leica] Armed America on the Road)
In reply to: Message from msmall at aya.yale.edu (Marc James Small) ([Leica] Armed America on the Road)
Message from bd at bdcolenphoto.com (B. D. Colen) ([Leica] Armed America on the Road)
Message from richard-lists at imagecraft.com (Richard) ([Leica] Armed America on the Road)