Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2007/03/06

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Subject: [Leica] IMG: Florida Wildlife
From: walt at waltjohnson.com (Walt Johnson)
Date: Tue Mar 6 16:03:11 2007
References: <7.0.1.0.2.20070305144650.024f51a8@infoave.net> <4cfa589b0703051633i425a489dsd25d1aafefeb5230@mail.gmail.com> <45ED898C.50908@waltjohnson.com> <7.0.1.0.2.20070306111300.0249a580@infoave.net> <4cfa589b0703060914p1fd8fdbbxd259fd800be6764e@mail.gmail.com>

Adam

What I don't understand is the rationalization which is rampant in what 
we consider */civilization/.* I'm too fat, it's mother nature's fault. 
Evolution crafted me this way. I'll do better than skinny folk in the 
next ice age, which is utter nonsense. I grew up in Arizona and was 
reasonably familiar with Native American culture. Some of my Native 
American friends came from successful families and did quite well. One 
of my best friend growing up was full-blooded Indian, and very slender. 
His mother was pudgy, as was mine. His dad was trim, mine wasn't. Some 
Native Americans  could be found propped up against a convenience store 
drinking cheap wine. Of course they didn't have a monopoly on this 
behavior. I'll have to ask Steve if the "deuce" is still active in 
Phoenix. If so it will have whites, blacks and maybe even a few has-been 
photographers.

A subset of humans have managed to cast off their cultural,  racial and 
prehistoric baggage to do amazing things. Going to the moon comes 
immediately to mind since I live 20 miles from KSC. For every problem we 
encounter, many of which are of our own making, there are experts (even 
psychotherapists?)galore willing to lend a sympathetic ear.At the same 
time our Native American brothers and sisters were chasing buffalo we 
were doing much the same. The old west is full of survival stories not 
limited to those who arrived  first. Some years back I illustrated a 
story on a group of former Indians who  had  blended  right into the  
Mexican culture which they  were a part of.  Once the government started 
talking about  recompense for being displaced several centuries earlier 
the Indians came out of the woodwork.

I can remember hearing "gland problems" cause my obesity for decades. A 
doctor once told me something like that might effect 1 person in 10,000. 
Still, it plays well on Oprah. As I mentioned before, I'm not going to 
make fun of overweight people. Maybe my remark about "fatties" was not 
the best choice of words? Nevertheless, we expend our efforts raising 
children to be good adults. Once one becomes an adult it should be their 
responsibility to do the right thing. whining and crying gets us 
nowhere. I've tried and it doesn't work for me. Maybe others have had 
more success and if so I'd like to have the recipe.

Walt



Adam Bridge wrote:
> And neither of you understand.
>
> Notice what has happened to Native American populations with regard to
> obesity. It's a real problem. Evolution crafted humans with bodies
> capable of hunter/gatherer existence. Feast and famine was very real.
> It's very real in many parts of the world. It's not here.
>
> As a result humans, a subset of those humans much more than others,
> have the ability and the desire to both consume and store mass
> quantities of calories. Back in the ice age this was survival: protein
> sources were catch as catch can, preservation was difficult to
> impossible, and you ate what you could when you could. Populations
> evolved under those conditions and there is a very real portion
> humanity whose bio-chemical nature is to keep fat at all costs - just
> as there are other portions of humanity who have just the opposite
> tendancies - the expend currently consumed calories first and store
> 2nd.
>
> If we were to have a quick-onset ice age I'll leave it as an exercise
> to the reader about who would survive longer.
>
> Unfortunately the US free market has researched, determined and
> trained many of us to enjoy foods that are high in fats and oils, high
> in complex carbohydrates, and low in protein. It's a magic bullet for
> selling food: it taps into a natural human desire for specific types
> of calories (normally difficult to come by) that, because they do not
> contain much protein, don't satisfy over time. Wow - can you sell into
> THAT market!
>
> That's what happened to Native American populations when exposed to
> western supermarket type foods - horrendous problems because they have
> all the appetites but their behavior has been required to change
> radically - no buffalo hunting allowed, thank you very much. There are
> some great programs on Plains Indians that used to be available
> through the University of Nebraska that touch on these health issues.
>
> It's only been in the last 300 years in the West that starvation isn't
> a routine problem. Clearly over substantial parts of the world it's
> STILL a problem and inside the US that hasn't changed either although
> the nature of the KIND of starvation has: cheap calories aren't
> necessarily "good for you" calories.
>
> I submit you need to think of food as a kind of drug. Those "fatties"
> that Walt so provocatively and snottily called them are dealing with a
> wealth of issues. It's not just a matter of will power. For Walt it's
> probably not an issue but for others the issues are vast and complex.
>
> I'm wondering if both of have connected obesity with anorexia and
> other eating disorders? Would either of you make fun of of people who
> are starving themselves to death? I don't think so. After all THOSE
> people have near-normal physical appearances - even ones validated by
> today's media and culture! They don't get in the way with their carts.
> And sure they're tearing their heart muscles apart to get protein but
> they don't LOOK bad.
>
> Psychotherapists have not labeled obesity as an eating disorder -- but
> those who I know and talk with see the same issues of control as being
> present.
>
> And one other quick aside. In the 10 years between the mid-70s and the
> mid-80s US calorie consumption jumped by almost 1,000 calories a week.
> Want to guess why? I know I had no idea. The addition of Mexican foods
> into the US cultural diet. 1,000 calories a week is 2 pounds gained
> without fiddling with the exercise component. And, of course, we DID
> fiddle with the exercise component: we turned it DOWN.
>
> Steve is right: the energy balance is absolute - find a way to
> exercise off what you take in beyond your subsistence needs are or
> you're gonna gain weight. As I pointed out earlier that becomes more
> difficult as one gets heavier until having your innards surgically
> removed looks like a good option - maybe the only option!
>
> Do people make choices about what they eat? Yep. But remember that
> they are being targeted. And even though Tina hasn't noticed it here,
> obesity is a rapidly rising problem throughout the Asian nations. Not
> at the US scale - yet - but it's happening.
>
> And lastly I want to apologize to Tina, and to the list, for the
> degree of stridency in the previous couple of posts. Reading Tina's
> posts I see that the degree of judgement was not as great as I was
> reading in - although it's still there. Walt, I think, is just being
> provocative but if he's not then he's displaying an ugly bigotry he
> wouldn't consider with other minority groups - even self-selected
> ones.
>
> Adam Bridge
>
>
> On 3/6/07, Tina Manley <images@infoave.net> wrote:
>> At 10:32 AM 3/6/2007, you wrote:
>> >I do believe it is life we are talking about, a life that doesn't
>> >rob the rest of humanity of basic necessities. So many people in  this
>> >unconcerned world  never get the chance to eat a decent meal. They
>> >work like dogs and still their children go to bed hungry, or
>> >worse.  Tina, I'm sure, can testify to what it does to us when we
>> >see starving children. Couple that with witnessing the disgusting
>> >overindulgence  in America and Western Europe? No wonder she points
>> >her camera at those who seemingly have no idea of what real 
>> suffering might be.
>> >
>> >Walt
>>
>> Thank you, Walt.  You said it much better than I could.
>>
>> Tina
>>
>> Tina Manley, ASMP, NPPA
>> http://www.tinamanley.com
>> http://www.pbase.com/tinamanley/dimes_for_hunger
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>

In reply to: Message from images at InfoAve.Net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] IMG: Florida Wildlife)
Message from abridge at gmail.com (Adam Bridge) ([Leica] IMG: Florida Wildlife)
Message from walt at waltjohnson.com (Walt Johnson) ([Leica] IMG: Florida Wildlife)
Message from images at InfoAve.Net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] IMG: Florida Wildlife)
Message from abridge at gmail.com (Adam Bridge) ([Leica] IMG: Florida Wildlife)