Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2007/07/27

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Subject: [Leica] was: XTOL rant now Rodinal rant
From: freakscene at weirdness.com (Marty Deveney)
Date: Fri Jul 27 04:06:58 2007

Rodinal is an AGFA proprietary name for a highly concentrated developer that 
uses para-aminophenol (p-aminophenol) as its primary developing agent and 
potassium hydroxide as its activator (alkali).  The formula is unpublished 
but can be replicated relatively easily.  Fomadon R09 is similar; 
Photographer’s Formulary makes a version, Fotoimpex has Adolux APH09 
and Calbe R09 is another.  There are others and you can mix your own.  I 
haven’t followed the 'what has happened to Rodinal since AGFA 
collapsed' story – maybe someone else can fill this in for us.

Richard asked:
>I was reading over the XTOL rant and wondered how does XTOL relate to  
>Rodinal. I have heard that Rodinal is a compensating developer.  So  
>how similar are they.  Rodinal is a much older formula I know.  

Xtol and Rodinal are not related chemically at all.  There are some 
interesting formulae you can try that combine both p-aminophenol and 
ascorbate, which I have included below.  Rodinal is a compensating 
developer, but only because it works well at very dilute concentrations.  
Development by-products that are released by the film include bromides, 
which are development restrainers.  With most developers, the amount of 
developer around the film completely negates these bromides, but because 
p-aminophenol develops effectively at very low concentrations, the bromide 
restraint works effectively to proportionally diminish development.  The pH 
of Rodinal is very high (very alkaline) and this is part of the reason for 
its activity at high concentrations and the graininess of films developed in 
it.  Rodinal has a reputation for sharpness (more on this below).

>Another question is Rodinal suitability for processing T-Max and  
>Delta films.  So what say you all.

Rodinal will develop any film.  But tonality, an important component of B&W 
photography, is influenced heavily both by film and developer and the paper 
(or post processing if you print digitally from negatives).  Rodinal has one 
tonal characteristic that limits its usefulness for me; it tends to lower 
midtones.  With films like Tri-X this gives a beautiful ‘dark’ 
look that can work very well.  It also works(ed?) well with the APX films.  
With flat-grain (T-Max) and epitaxial (Delta) monosize emulsions, Rodinal 
tends to apparently lower the midtones more (I say apparently because I 
haven’t measured it, but it looks like a proportionally greater effect 
to me), making tonality odd and generally less than optimal.  Printers and 
scanner/photoshoppers of considerable skill can get around this (Ansel Adams 
produced beautiful work from HP5 or Tri-X in HC110 dilution B, or so he 
said, whereas both are poor F&D combinations that produce ‘soot and 
chalk’ tones even at normal CIs) but for most of us it just makes life 
tough.  Rodinal is a particularly poor match for T-Max 100 (TMX).  T-Max 
P3200 (TMZ) at EI 1000 or 1600 developed in Rodinal 1+50, on the other hand, 
is quite striking if you like HUGE grain, but again, the midtones can be a 
little problematic.  I think most films that look good in Rodinal look 
better in dilute D23 (except Tri-X which I think needs a little hydroquinone 
with its metol and looks better in dilute D76).  They all look better to me 
in Xtol.

The other often overlooked factor associated with Rodinal is that it 
isn’t as *relatively* sharp as it is often made out to be.  Anchell 
rates it slightly as having slightly higher acutance than dilute solvent 
developers, but I think that results from D76 1+2 are equivalently sharp and 
Xtol 1+2 or 1+3 looks sharper to me.  Amusingly, D76 has no reputation for 
sharpness at all.  When Anchell wrote about dilute solvent developers, I 
don’t know if he’d experimented with low-sulfite developers 
using ascorbates.  I'm working from memory here.  Beutlers, some of the 
Crawley formulae and some pyrocatechin developers are also MUCH sharper 
(Anchell’s book discusses this at some length and it was summarised by 
Mark Rabiner here: http://leica-users.org/v21/msg10232.html).  Neither 
dilute D76 or Xtol will produce the loss of emulsion speed that highly 
dilute (1+75 and above) Rodinal will typically display.  Remember that very 
high sharpness developers often don’t have the best tonality.

>Rodinal makes no attempt to hide grain. It actually gives grain sharp  
>edges and increases the contrast of the negative. X-Tol seems to  
>increase contrast as well while minimizing grain. 

I’m trying to be explanatory rather than contradictory here; contrast 
in B&W film is controlled by exposure and development.  While some 
developers are inherently more contrasty than others, with modified exposure 
and development time, almost any developer (and certainly any standard 
developer) can be used to develop film to a given contrast index (CI).  How 
it looks will change, however, because the F&D combination will have a 
different shape curve (after all, the CI is just the average slope of the 
density curve).  What you see with both dilute Xtol and Rodinal are 
adjacency effects – they look contrasty because of their acutance, 
which tends to produce highly defined lines where widely spaced tones meet 
in photos.

>I use X-Tol for most of my 35mm to give me the finest grain.

I recommend this strongly.  Xtol has the best combination of film speed, 
sharpness, and grain structure of any developer I’ve seen.  For 35mm 
films, the only reason to use anything else is a lack of ability or 
willingess to use distilled water.  It works remarkably well with almost all 
films.

>The other advantage to using Rodinal is the convenience of having a  
>super long lasting concentrate always handy without the worry of an  
>expired, powder developer when I haven't developed film in awhile. It  
>works just fine with any film I've ever used, even the Ilfords you  
>mentioned although I now prefer the Fuji films to just about anything.

If what you really want is an everlasting concentrate, Rodinal is very good. 
 My first samples of JB9 (see the Xtol rant) show no sign of oxidation or 
loss of potency after ~2 years and might be a good substitute for those who 
want an ‘everlasting’ concentrate with the advantages of 
ascorbates.  PC-TEA is also pretty much indestructible.

Classic Rodinal formula
Solution A 
Water, 125F/52C 750 ml 
p-Aminophenol Hydrochloride 100 g 
Potassium Metabisulfite 300 g 
Cold water to make 1L 

Solution B 
Cold Water 300 ml 
Sodium Hydroxide 200 g 
Cold water to make 1L

Mixing instructions: Add chemicals in specified sequence. Always use cold 
water when mixing sodium hydroxide due to risk of heat reaction. Unlike many 
other two part developers, you must mix both parts together to make the 
concentrated solution. In The Film Developing Cookbook, Troop and Anchell 
suggest the following sequence for making the concentrated developer: Allow 
Solution A to cool until a precipitate forms. Mix Solution A in an iced 
water bath at this stage, then slowly mix in Solution B while constantly 
stirring, first adding 280ml of solution B, and then adding the remainder 
until the solution suddenly turns dark. Follow this by adding the last drops 
of Solution B very slowly. Always wear gloves and protective goggles when 
mixing sodium hydroxide. 
Dilution: 1+25, 1+50, 1+75, 1+100 and others.

It’s interesting that hydroxide + bisulfite produces sulfite and that 
a litre of 1:25 strength Rodinal probably has about 14g of Potassium Sulfite 
in it.  This provides about as many sulfite ions as 10 grams of Sodium 
Sulfite.

Rodinal variations

Some photographers dissolve 25-100g of sulfite in the diluting water prior 
to adding the Rodinal.  This seems like a completely counterproductive move 
to me.

4g/L sodium ascorbate makes Rodinal more active, finer grained and partly 
addresses some of the tonal issues.  Don’t use ascorbic acid – 
it will decrease the pH enough to kill the developer.  If all you can get is 
ascorbic acid, mix 2 parts ascorbic acid with 1 part sodium bicarbonate 
(bicarbonate of soda) in some water and wait until the fizzing stops to 
convert it to ascorbate.  Pat Gainer says that adding ascorbate sometimes 
causes significant fog – this figures since the pH of Rodinal is high 
enough to allow the ascorbate to initiate development on its own (rather 
than acting in synergy with p-aminophenol).  If you experience fogging, Pat 
Gainer says that 1g/L borax buffers the pH enough to prevent fogging.  He 
goes on to add that 1g/L borax in plain Rodinal decreases grain and fog.  
Plenty to try here.

Patrick Gainer’s PCK
10 grams p-aminophenol.HCl
20 grams ascorbic acid
30 grams sodium sulfite
10 grams sodium hydroxide
1L water
Mix in order.  As soon as you stir in the sulfite, you will see the same 
sort of precipitate that you see when mixing Formulary Rodinal.  Add the 10 
grams of hydroxide.  Use diluted 1+9.  I haven’t tested this, but it 
should work well.

Sam Elkind’s insane Xtol/Rodinal hybrid
Xtol = 100 mL
water = 400 mL
Rodinal = 4 to 5 mL
 
Sam says 9 minutes works well for Tri-X @200 @ 24C.

I’ve only read this; I haven’t tried it.  People will try 
anything after all.  It should work, but it would be costly and probably 
isn’t any significantly better than PCK.

Again, I hope this is informative and useful.  Much of this is derived from 
tests, but much of it is also just my opinion.  If you have a long-lasting, 
almost physical love for Rodinal, please don't worry about defending your 
developer of choice - I can see why you like it.  I just don't.

Marty



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Replies: Reply from len-1 at comcast.net (Leonard Taupier) ([Leica] was: XTOL rant now Rodinal rant)
Reply from pmcc_2000 at yahoo.com (pmcc) ([Leica] was: XTOL rant now Rodinal rant)