Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2008/03/11

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Subject: [Leica] Not Buying M8
From: kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour)
Date: Tue Mar 11 13:59:35 2008
References: <051001c88332$a37338e0$0200a8c0@robertbxucevjs> <DC4B73A4105FCE4FAE0CEF799BF84B36013F207B@case-email> <6.2.1.2.2.20080311104709.0152a820@pop.med.cornell.edu> <87F3C8FC-5FF9-4969-99EA-D75C02DDA4AD@cox.net> <6.2.1.2.2.20080311151950.015a8358@pop.med.cornell.edu>

On Mar 11, 2008, at 12:55 PM, Chris Saganich wrote:

> I only try to think about why I have an apprehension about digital  
> images, even regarding the ones I make.  I feel there is something  
> terribly sinister about the entire digital community and this is  
> disconcerting to me.


three times now I have gone somewhere with my digital slr and my M8,  
and lenses...seeing good reasons for both cameras, and have only taken  
photos with the M8...

Steve


>
>
> At 01:19 PM 3/11/2008, you wrote:
>> On Mar 11, 2008, at 9:54 AM, Chris Saganich wrote:
>>
>>> When I wake up in the morning I think I'd be happy to own an M8 but
>>> then I have this problem regarding the proliferation of the digital
>>> image.  My problem is simply that the signal to noise ratio
>>> regarding digital images is so high I'm generally turned off from
>>> even looking at images unless I know their coming from a reliable
>>> source.  I figured that an M8 in the hands of the M community would
>>> improve this situation but I think many have bought into the "get
>>> more for less" mentality which seems nothing more then another
>>> scam.  As far as I have seen digital has disproportionately
>>> benefited the consumers of the snapshot rather then artists and
>>> professionals.  Most bread and butter photographers when I have
>>> seriously asked feel like they were forced into the digital world
>>> without much benefit to them.  Even at the higher end photographers
>>> are getting screwed.  I have friends who have given up standing
>>> behind the camera because the image processing fetches a higher
>>> professional service fee, so they work the computers all day and get
>>> paid more then the photographers.  When clients need more images or
>>> different ones from a particular shoot they go to him, he keeps the
>>> images and not the photographer.  The photographer has become a
>>> technician and the computer operator has become the artist.  My
>>> neighbor went so far as to start a business renting image processing
>>> equipment to the computer operators for commercial shoots.  All I
>>> can say is that the $$$ is very good in the processing but not in
>>> actually using a camera.  I see a different future for digital
>>> cameras where the term "camera" becomes meaningless, technical, and
>>> not artistic. The "camera" as we we have come to know it is no
>>> longer intimately tied to image making, rather the evidence suggests
>>> computer processing is where the images are created so however you
>>> get the image into a computer is fair play.  The camera takes a back
>>> seat to the computer in this digital world and I don't believe this
>>> market trajectory will suddenly change, (so why should the camera
>>> survive?).  The term digital camera doesn't even make sense to me
>>> anymore.  The only hope is the continued drive people have for
>>> serious creative self-expression and self-exploration through images
>>> for which the computer still remains marginal.  I see people doing
>>> less of this the more digital they become.
>>
>> while I agree with what you say Chris...sadly it has a ring of  
>> truth...
>>
>> I consider your wonderful bw images, which in some ways I connect  
>> with
>> Steve Unsworth's wonderful bw images taken with the M8....
>>
>> it leads me to the conclusion that you are thinking way too much...
>>
>> instead of taking photos...
>>
>> with an M whatever...
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At 10:14 AM 3/11/2008, you wrote:
>>>> The M8 has a more limited audience than Leicas of the past. That
>>>> must be
>>>> a challenge for Leica.
>>>>
>>>> The M8 makes a lot of sense for someone who will photograph a lot
>>>> before
>>>> the warranty expires or before a better alternative comes along.  
>>>> But
>>>> it's not like a film M that you could justify buying even if you
>>>> were a
>>>> weekend photographer. You knew the film M would require little
>>>> maintenance and probably hold its value over time. A lot of people
>>>> bought film Ms and hardly used them. And film M's still have value
>>>> today.
>>>>
>>>> Even my 50-year-old plus film M is still a working camera. With a
>>>> Noct
>>>> attached and my favorite BW film inside, it is still without  
>>>> peer. I
>>>> can't duplicate the image quality with software (although maybe
>>>> someone
>>>> out there can).
>>>>
>>>> Gone, too, it seems is the limited edition market for Leica. I
>>>> wonder if
>>>> we'll ever see a limited edition digital M. That would be good news
>>>> because it would mean digital was reaching maturity. I used to
>>>> scoff at
>>>> things like Ostrich skin and Titanium shell on the M6, but deep
>>>> down I
>>>> secretly wanted to own one.
>>>>
>>>> DaveR
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more  
>>>> information
>>>
>>> Chris Saganich, MS, Sr. Physicist
>>> Weill Medical College of Cornell University
>>> New York Presbyterian Hospital
>>> chs2018@med.cornell.edu
>>> http://intranet.med.cornell.edu/research/health_phys/
>>> Ph. 212.746.6964
>>> Fax. 212.746.4800
>>> Office A-0049
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> "I never wanted to be famous"
>> now available at www.blurb.com
>>
>> kididdoc@cox.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
> Chris Saganich, MS, Sr. Physicist
> Weill Medical College of Cornell University
> New York Presbyterian Hospital
> chs2018@med.cornell.edu
> http://intranet.med.cornell.edu/research/health_phys/
> Ph. 212.746.6964
> Fax. 212.746.4800
> Office A-0049
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information

Steve

"I never wanted to be famous"
now available at www.blurb.com

kididdoc@cox.net

















Replies: Reply from jbcollier at shaw.ca (John Collier) ([Leica] Not Buying M8 nor Hummer nor Taunting Frank)
In reply to: Message from robertmeier at usjet.net (Robert Meier) ([Leica] Not Buying M8)
Message from drodgers at casefarms.com (David Rodgers) ([Leica] Not Buying M8)
Message from chs2018 at med.cornell.edu (Chris Saganich) ([Leica] Not Buying M8)
Message from kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] Not Buying M8)
Message from chs2018 at med.cornell.edu (Chris Saganich) ([Leica] Not Buying M8)