Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/05/21

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Subject: [Leica] HIGHLY TECHNICAL QUESTION?
From: kididdoc at cox.net (Steve Barbour)
Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 10:59:33 -0700
References: <200905202031.BQM08525@rg5.comporium.net> <20090521013018.IBUH8364.eastrmmtao105.cox.net@eastrmimpo03.cox.net> <200905210135.BQM37975@rg5.comporium.net> <d02ca8d32845c.4a146b3c@shaw.ca> <7ac27f4f0905201857u6c2846edtca2c4adc23ef77d0@mail.gmail.com> <1A3DF126-167F-46D0-8BF7-C43C6BFEE4A9@bex.net> <BLU0-SMTP84098B6875D77896B1C2958C590@phx.gbl> <38A9B06B-AAAA-436C-9EA7-264873DADEAC@gmail.com>

On May 21, 2009, at 6:20 AM, Thein Onn Ming wrote:

> The electrons liberated from  the battery into the sensor  
> (simplified version) are probably just dissipated as heat through  
> the electrical components. Otherwise, you wouldn't need to worry  
> about charging a battery or amp noise...
>
> By the way, I'm new here. :)


welcome Ming...and btw,

this is one of the easier issues we tackle here,


:-)


Steve


>
> Cheers
> Ming
>
> On May 21, 2009, at 8:49 PM, Vick Ko wrote:
>
>> Yes, these two answers, by Howard and Richard, are the two most  
>> "realistic".
>>
>> First, there is the mechanistic answer, that the pixels are merely  
>> the electro-magnetic storage states of the storage medium, and  
>> deletion alters their state.  This alteration requires energy  
>> input, and you get into the operation and physics of the particular  
>> storage media.  And that alteration might only be the elimination  
>> of the file definition (header) bytes, or might be the entire  
>> overwriting of the whole pixel array to a "start state".
>>
>> Then, there is the "information philosophy" side, which Howard  
>> talks about.  Where did the information represented by that "state  
>> of the set of pixels, which might be an image", go?  Is is now  
>> distributed into the minds and memories of all those who saw it?  I  
>> personally don't understand the hypothesis that "information is  
>> never destroyed", but that is an indication of my lack of  
>> understanding.
>>
>>
>> ...Vick
>>
>> Howard Ritter wrote:
>>> Congratulations, Dr Ted! That is actually a very subtle and  
>>> incisive question.
>>> The answer is rooted in quantum mechanics, information theory, and  
>>> the notion
>>> that information, like matter and energy, is never destroyed.  
>>> There was a prolonged
>>> and passionate debate in the physics community on this question.  
>>> It was feared
>>> initially that when matter falls into a black hole, its  
>>> information content is lost, to
>>> the great consternation of many physicists. It seemed as egregious  
>>> a violation of
>>> fundamental physics as a violation of the conservation of energy.  
>>> But clever
>>> insights and analysis finally saved the day. Check out The Black  
>>> Hole War by
>>> Leonard Susskind, or at least James Trefil's Washington Post  
>>> review of the book at
>>> Amazon:
>>>
>>> http://www.amazon.com/Black-Hole-War-Stephen-Mechanics/dp/0316016411/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1242872534&sr=8-1
>>>
>>> So wherever the pixels go, in some fashion their information is  
>>> never lost to the
>>> universe?no matter how good your memory scrubber is! The question  
>>> is, where
>>> do the pixels go?oh, but that's what you asked, isn't it?
>>>
>>> That's my circular explanation.
>>>
>>> ?howard
>>>
>>> On May 20, 2009, at 9:57 PM, Richard Man wrote:
>>>
>>>> It goes to the bit bucket in the heaven!
>>>>
>>>> The pixels are stored as a file in the media, so it goes wherever  
>>>> files go
>>>> when you delete a file. In practical terms, under Windows,  
>>>> normally the
>>>> files go to the Recycling Bin so you can rescue them if needed  
>>>> unless you
>>>> empty the Recycling Bin. When that happens, the disk space used  
>>>> by the file
>>>> may be used by the system for the other files, but at the system  
>>>> level, the
>>>> file is stored in multiple locations and it's possible to recover  
>>>> portion of
>>>> the file even if the system reclaims and file and uses the  
>>>> storage space.
>>>>
>>>> There are methods to more permanently delete a file involving  
>>>> actively
>>>> modifying all the data that the file. In the extreme case, one  
>>>> could destroy
>>>> the drive by removing the platters and pound it into bits...
>>>>
>>>> Does this help?
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 6:42 PM, TED GRANT <tedgrant at shaw.ca>  
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have just been asked a technical question and require an exact  
>>>>> answer if
>>>>> possible.
>>>>> "WHERE DO THE PIXELS GO WHEN YOU DELETE A PICTURE?"
>>>>> Dr. ted
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
> THEIN Onn Ming
> *photohorologer ming at www.mingthein.com
> www.flickr.com/mingthein
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information



Replies: Reply from mingthein at gmail.com (Ming Thein) ([Leica] HIGHLY TECHNICAL QUESTION?)
In reply to: Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] Cameras Banned)
Message from kcarney1 at cox.net (Ken Carney) ([Leica] Cameras Banned)
Message from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] Cameras Banned)
Message from tedgrant at shaw.ca (TED GRANT) ([Leica] HIGHLY TECHNICAL QUESTION?)
Message from richard.lists at gmail.com (Richard Man) ([Leica] HIGHLY TECHNICAL QUESTION?)
Message from hlritter at bex.net (Howard Ritter) ([Leica] HIGHLY TECHNICAL QUESTION?)
Message from vick.ko at sympatico.ca (Vick Ko) ([Leica] HIGHLY TECHNICAL QUESTION?)
Message from mingthein at gmail.com (Thein Onn Ming) ([Leica] HIGHLY TECHNICAL QUESTION?)