Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/05/31

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Subject: [Leica] OT: D3x vs. 'Blad CFV 16MP full sized samples
From: mingthein at gmail.com (Thein Onn Ming)
Date: Sun, 31 May 2009 21:59:59 +0800
References: <C64795A6.4F3E6%mark@rabinergroup.com> <522DC88C-9829-4386-88EC-7787489ED5C5@mac.com>

I'm in agreement with you here, George. My experience with the F2/  
D200 suggests that with reasonably fine slide film - Provia 100 in  
this case - the D200 is somewhat ahead due to cleanliness at low  
ISOs, but if you scan at higher resolutions (and interpolate the D200  
raw file) then it's a wash for fine detail being lost in grain  
structure, or artefacts from the interpolation software.

On May 31, 2009, at 9:53 PM, George Lottermoser wrote:

> Not sure what you mean by "slow speed ISO neg"
> (I'm not speaking of drum scans of kodachrome 25)
>
> And yes you can make a drum scan at monstrously huge resolutions.
> I did not do that. The scans were made for 300 ppi x 13 in x 19 in
> Plenty high enough to get to the grain structure of the film.
>
> I specifically compared 160 through 640 ISO negs to sensor images.
> Same lens, same subject, same light.
>
> The drum scan of 160 film provides sharp grain structure
> which becomes evident in magnification
> before pixels become evident at similar magnification.
>
> Aesthetically some may prefer the film look.
> But from a purely technical perspective
> the digital image appears as
> a much slower (or larger) grain-less scanned film
> than the equivalent 160 through 640 35 mm film.
>
> I did not compare 30x40 prints.
> I compared on screen and 11x14 prints.
>
> Regards,
> George Lottermoser
> george at imagist.com
> http://www.imagist.com
> http://www.imagist.com/blog
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/imagist
>
> On May 31, 2009, at 1:02 AM, Mark Rabiner wrote:
>
>> I can't imagine that a drum scan of a 24 x 36mm slow speed ISO neg  
>> shot with
>> Leica glass shot on a tripod would not have a whole lot of  
>> information in
>> it.
>>
>> Pit against a KAF-10500 sensor with an active area of 27 x 18 mm  
>> which you
>> find in an M8 I'm not sure I'd root for the sensor in the camera.
>>
>> I'm not a betting man normally but I'm afraid I'd put 2 bucks down  
>> on the
>> drum.
>>
>> I've made 30 x 40 inch darkroom prints from 35mm negs and its  
>> amazing the
>> stuff in there from medium speed film even. Or 400 speed film.
>> And a drum scan can have billions and billions of megapixels in  
>> there.
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark William Rabiner
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: George Lottermoser <imagist3 at mac.com>
>>> Reply-To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 19:23:22 -0500
>>> To: Leica Users Group <lug at leica-users.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Leica] OT: D3x vs. 'Blad CFV 16MP full sized samples
>>>
>>> I've done this test with cameras locked down on tripods.
>>>
>>> I have no doubt that your M8 will technically out perform even drum
>>> scanned 35 mm film at:
>>> 160 asa
>>> 320 asa
>>> 640 asa
>>>
>>> I've not done higher speed film comparisons.
>>>
>>> The only way you'll technically out perform the best decent sized
>>> digital sensors
>>> is with drum scanned very large format transparencies shot with
>>> extremely fine lenses.
>>>
>>> The aesthetic qualities of film continue to carry their own weight
>>> very well.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information

THEIN Onn Ming
*photohorologer ming at www.mingthein.com
www.flickr.com/mingthein







In reply to: Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] OT: D3x vs. 'Blad CFV 16MP full sized samples)
Message from imagist3 at mac.com (George Lottermoser) ([Leica] OT: D3x vs. 'Blad CFV 16MP full sized samples)