Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2009/11/05

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Subject: [Leica] Why the mad rush / toxicity / DARKROOMS & CHEMICALS.
From: tedgrant at shaw.ca (tedgrant at shaw.ca)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 2009 12:09:32 -0800
References: <C71819F8.57F60%mark@rabinergroup.com> <A3306028-C1B0-4FD4-BF37-5901D1A320CF@gmail.com> <F7A89B679AEC4D529BE53CE61E4AFF96@jimnichols>

Darkrooms and chemicals etc:

I suppose my first exposure to hands in wet photo chemical trays would've 
been June 1949!
Right up to about 5-6 years ago when we went all digital. Trust me I'll 
never go back no matter what anyone croons about the joys of the good old 
days being in the darkroom! Hey I loved it, it was my quiet time of true 
silence! Relaxing accept when making 16X20 fine art prints.... lots of 
tension during those times with absolutely no one ever saying a word! Total 
silence and mental concentration on the print making! A peep from anyone and 
they were out & gone!

During the 57 years I never used gloves, occasionally tongs, but you can't 
soup 25 prints at one batch flipping prints over and over with tongs... 
Hands only! My record for souping prints in one batch? 55 prints dropped 
into the tray one right after the other by an assistant while I was flipping 
one print after the other in the chemicals. Then through the other trays to 
washer. My good fortune? I never experienced any hand or finger nail 
staining.

As far as I know from lung x-rays during other conditions, no damage or any 
other chemical influence inside  the lungs has ever been picked up. By the 
same token a couple of my buddies, now long gone due to lung cancer or other 
deadly lung maladies, there was a question if their deaths were due to long 
time darkroom mixing chemicals and hands in the wet trays. Generally pasted 
off with, "Naw that kind of stuff never bothers anyone. He was a smoker and 
died from that!" However? Did it? Was it maybe the chemicals?

When I was developing prints as soon as I finished  I always washed my hands 
in the stop bath, acetic acid & water. Then do the same thing in the fixer 
tray.... Followed by a good water washing. Did that or was that why I didn't 
have any staining as many others did? Or other bodily influences?

I'm glad digital came along when it finally did, although it was 45 years 
too late for what it could of done during my career.

Dr. ted



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jim Nichols" <jhnichols at lighttube.net>
To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Leica] Why the mad rush / toxicity


> Hi Steve,
>
> My darkroom exposure, like yours, was more than 40 years ago, and was not
> extensive.  I never considered the toxicity of the chemical exposure,
> thinking there was not much of a problem unless they were ingested.
>
> My late father-in-law made his living from a small studio for a number of
> years.  He hated gloves, so his nails were often discolored, but he was 
> not
> aware of other symptoms.  He was active until he suffered a stroke at 90,
> and died at 91.
>
> Jim Nichols
> Tullahoma, TN USA
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Steve Barbour" <steve.barbour at gmail.com>
> To: "Leica Users Group" <lug at leica-users.org>
> Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2009 12:03 PM
> Subject: Re: [Leica] Why the mad rush / toxicity
>
>
>> hi Mark and thanks,
>>
>> I am reading some of the current information and warnings...Back when  I
>> worked in a photo darkroom in a very amateurish way, 40 years ago,  there
>> was no particular concern, no warnings, I took no special  precautions,
>> 'cus the general feeling was that risk was low and  seemingly
>> non-existent...
>>
>> at that time,  the idea that the chemicals either  by contact or by
>> inhalation were inherently toxic, never dawned, was not at issue, even
>> though I was a professor at that time on a medical school faculty, and
>> trained in depth in biochemistry, molecular biology, microbial
>> genetics...
>>
>> I have survived the intervening time without any obvious damage, but  my
>> exposures were surely minimal compared to many.
>>
>> One has to think of the possible analogy with the story of Marie and
>> Pierre Curie who won Nobel prizes for their work with radioactive
>> compounds, but who had no idea of the associated serious risks, and
>> suffered from these...at least severe burns, and Marie's death from
>> aplastic anemia. (Pierre died prematurely from a fractured skull after  a
>> street acident).
>>
>> So all this talk about toxicity and precautions is an eye opener for  me,
>> and the concerns are admittedly tainted by the self serving  overreaction
>> of regulatory agencies, as usual "a day late and a dollar  short"...
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 5, 2009, at 2:58 AM, Mark Rabiner wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> On Nov 4, 2009, at 7:16 PM, Richard Man wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What are you? A doctor?!!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> yes, but.....
>>>>
>>>> I am reading all this stuff...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://www.subclub.org/darkroom/safety.htm
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> " Use tubes instead of trays for all processing. "
>>> Wildly delusional and totally out of the loupe would be thus my  opinion
>>> on
>>> the subclub.
>>> Fiber doesn't work with tubes and if they did you'd still not want  to
>>> use
>>> them.
>>> Use rubber gloves with trays and you'll do fine making an effort to  not
>>> smell the powders. If you know what it smells like its already  entered
>>> your
>>> body.  (Dektol vs. Hypo) Make sure you don't know. Know by reading not
>>> smelling.
>>>
>>> Most people who have had darkroom problems come from a generation  (The
>>> 60's
>>> and before) where they used their hands not tongs and nobody cared 
>>> about
>>> stuff like not breathing powders. Arthritis was what a lot of these 
>>> guys
>>> seemed to have gotten from no tongs. Rarely anything else.
>>> 1 in 1000 gets Metol / Elon reactions. They need to stay out of the
>>> darkroom
>>> but maybe go with Phenidone.
>>> Its the people who experimenting in alternate processes who run into
>>> trouble.
>>> Gum Bichromate. potassium dichromate is nasty stuff.
>>> Platinum printing maybe I think I heard will do  you in if your  stupid.
>>>
>>> But since the 70's at a college darkroom they made you be careful.
>>> That's when I switched from my hands to tongs.
>>>
>>>
>>> Mark William Rabiner
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information


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Replies: Reply from philippe.amard at sfr.fr (Philippe Amard) ([Leica] Why the mad rush / toxicity / DARKROOMS & CHEMICALS.)
Reply from images at comporium.net (Tina Manley) ([Leica] Why the mad rush / toxicity / DARKROOMS & CHEMICALS.)
In reply to: Message from mark at rabinergroup.com (Mark Rabiner) ([Leica] Why the mad rush to use Canon or Nikon bodies?)
Message from steve.barbour at gmail.com (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] Why the mad rush / toxicity)
Message from jhnichols at lighttube.net (Jim Nichols) ([Leica] Why the mad rush / toxicity)