Archived posting to the Leica Users Group, 2010/08/29

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Subject: [Leica] Legs
From: lluisripollquerol at gmail.com (Lluis Ripoll Querol)
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2010 14:39:28 +0200
References: <AANLkTi=+r+aAVfVDOY1CTgj-MCSfR8-uRiZO+RsuHBNh@mail.gmail.com> <20100829013554.2448957b@linux-wbgu.site> <66C05887-7D0F-4D2F-8AF9-07947A09061F@gmail.com> <20100829021523.5369025a@linux-wbgu.site> <AANLkTimfS6pjiVEV4xv=1n5RdoiFv8g1MnU9SH=P2xow@mail.gmail.com>

Geoff, my friend

Thank you for your kind words, I don't want continue discussions that  
don't benefit nobody, and are difficult to follow for me.

A Spanish poet, Ramon de Campoamor (1817-1901) has a famous sentence  
"nada es verdad ni es mentira, todo es seg?n el color del cristal con  
que se mira", the Google translator has translated this:

"Nothing is true or a lie. Everything is under the eye of the beholder"

This is my last word concerning this discussion, and I'll ignore any  
new comment on this sense, "nonsense", as said Steve. I'm sure we,  
all, we have more interesting things to invest our time.

Cheers my friend
Lluis


El 29/08/2010, a las 8:48, Geoff Hopkinson escribi?:

> Phil the last time you brought this up on this group you then went  
> on to
> tell us that you had done fetish photography of tied up women (but  
> regarded
> that as acceptable).  Yet you are again describing the photos by  
> Lluis as
> offensive in your mind. It will all be in the archives I suppose.   
> If you
> remember we also had several conversation exchanges off -list where  
> I urged
> you not to post your opinions on this on the list since it would  
> very likely
> lead to division and unpleasantness.
>
> I regard that fetish photography as far more exploitative and  
> degrading than
> what you have interpreted as offensive from the photography by Lluis.
> Honestly what do you think that your female friends would say if you
> presented that fetish work to them and asked for opinions?
> Look again with open mind you would see that Lluis has I think  
> hundreds of
> photographs posted on-line and your descriptions of his work are very
> coloured and inaccurate.
>
> Of course we clearly disagree on what you see in the photos by my  
> friend
> Lluis and you are entitled to your opinions. Mine are that the
> interpretation is different for each person.
> No doubt you will strongly disagree with my post. I ask that you do  
> keep any
> responses on list and keep in mind that not everyone has the same  
> views or
> moral judgements.
> Better yet simply filter your posts if you object. I object to
> your derogatory remarks regarding Lluis.
>
>
>
> Geoff
> http://www.pbase.com/hoppyman
>
>
> On 29 August 2010 16:15, Phil <photo.forrest at earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>> How so?  It looks like a camera was placed under a table to
>> get an upskirt shot. Yeah, we heard how he shot it, but this is  
>> what he
>> shoots a lot of. An attractive figure and her backside. This is why I
>> ask "what does her face look like" with these photos. Because there  
>> are
>> rarely any shots of faces taken. These are made subversively, or it
>> looks so, and I'm just surprised that so much of it is passed off as
>> good.
>>
>> My photography needs work, yes, but I try to engage my subjects as  
>> much
>> as possible, trying never to take a photo of the back of someone for
>> the sake of looking at their figure. It's boring with little subject
>> content or impact besides "backside" or "legs" on one hand and  
>> arguably
>> objectionable (as is the case with several of my friends) on the  
>> other.
>>
>> I'm not trying to be mean. I'm not a sycophant to this list either.  
>> This
>> is my critique of what is shown and has been shown. I love images of
>> attractive people, yes, but do they have a say in it in these cases,
>> like the legs photo? Or is there merit to a photo of the back of
>> someone's head which we've seen so much of?
>>
>> As in the past, I'm probably one of very few to speak up about  
>> respect
>> for women and how we portray them.
>>
>> Phil Forrest
>>
>> On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 23:01:02 -0700
>> Steve Barbour <steve.barbour at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 28, 2010, at 10:35 PM, Phil wrote:
>>>
>>>> I know I have touched on this before, but just for curiosity's
>>>> sake, I passed the image that Luis posted on to a few of my female
>>>> friends.
>>>>
>>>>
>> http://gallery.leica-users.org/v/luisrq/Miscellaneous/L1015811.jpg.html
>>>>
>>>> when they saw it, both said it was hopefully a posed shot for
>>>> product and if not, then it was borderline up-skirt and on the edge
>>>> of leering. One said the black & white one was better in case
>>>> anyone wonders, but both were a bit unnerved about the image and
>>>> how it was made.
>>>>
>>>> This is what I've been saying for quite some but somewhere between
>>>> leering, questionable content, objectification and "art" the line  
>>>> is
>>>> blurred. Yes, what I see is a nice photo but like so many others of
>>>> very attractive women and the backs of their heads or their
>>>> backsides or whatnot, isn't it just improper? Do these women get to
>>>> voice their opinion? "Oh you took a photo of my legs that almost
>>>> looks up my skirt? Fantastic!"
>>>>
>>>> And no, it's not a difference in culture, because that kind of
>>>> objectification is frowned upon the whole world over, not just in
>>>> the US.
>>>>
>>>> Many of these photos are very well exposed, very technically decent
>>>> images. Great focus, decent composition and all, but somewhere
>>>> there is a fuzzy boundary between "street" photography or candids
>>>> and straight up objectification, bordering on indecency solely due
>>>> to that objectification.
>>>
>>>
>>> all absolute nonsense of course,
>>>
>>>
>>> sorry Phil,
>>>
>>>
>>> Steve
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Phil Forrest
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Leica Users Group.
>>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more  
>>>> information
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Leica Users Group.
>>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Leica Users Group.
>> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Leica Users Group.
> See http://leica-users.org/mailman/listinfo/lug for more information



In reply to: Message from pswango at att.net (Phil Swango) ([Leica] war is personal)
Message from photo.forrest at earthlink.net (Phil) ([Leica] Legs)
Message from steve.barbour at gmail.com (Steve Barbour) ([Leica] Legs)
Message from photo.forrest at earthlink.net (Phil) ([Leica] Legs)
Message from hopsternew at gmail.com (Geoff Hopkinson) ([Leica] Legs)